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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:26:09 -0700
From: ".alyn.post." <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Words for Politics and Economics
Message-ID: <20110228182609.GA51687@alice.local>
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This seems as good a time as any to weigh in on something I've
wished to express when coining words in Lojban.  It is difficult
to separate English connotation from a word's definition, and I
have had to check and recheck myself when working on lujvo that
I find the essential concept I'm trying to express and not the
emotional response I have in response to the word. 

I've identified a principle that I use when coining words: make
them descriptive of the activity rather than descriptive of the
intent.

By way of an example: I was thinking about how one might translate
billboard: the large advertisements you might see on the side of
the road or in a place like Times Square.

My first approach was to describe them as advertising signs, but
this is speaking to their intend rather than the description of what
they are.  A government may rent one for a PSA/propaganda.  They
aren't always used as they were originally intended to be used.
Broadly, intentions and subject to being subverted whereas a
description describes the activity engaged in without trying to say
why.  It is better to describe something as it literally is.

Defining something according to it's intended use encodes
(often implicitly) a value judgement in the definition.  An implicit
value is a red-flag to be that a definition isn't culturally neutral.
Describing the physical act performed (or as close as one can for
more abstract concepts) is a good method for avoiding this.

If you go find a (not really) old dictionary and look up the word labret,
you're likely to find something like this:

  A piece of wood, shell, stone, or other substance, worn in a
  perforation of the lip or cheek by many savages.

The "by many savages" gets a chuckle out of me, for the reasons I'm
describing here.  The definition in it's modern form (from the OED):

  An ornament consisting of a piece of stone, bone, shell, etc.
  inserted in the lip.

Is strictly observative, more essential, and not particularly
subject to subversion by a change in intent.

I think these examples are easy to think about, and that politics in
one of many places where it is easy to commit this error.  I hope
I've communicated clearly and not been terribly off-topic. 

-Alan

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 01:59:17AM -0800, Greendogo wrote:
> So I checked some of the dictionaries floating about and I wasn't able
> to find "words" to use in political discourse.  I made a list of
> several words I'd like to know the Lojban equivalents for, including
> some basic English nouns and words used to refer to people of
> different political leanings:
> 
> Politics
> Economics
> 
> Democrat
> Republican
> Libertarian/libertarianism
> Liberal
> Conservative
> Socialist
> Statist
> 
> Liberty
> Freedom
> Slavery
> 
> Property
> Rights (natural rights)
> Rights (guaranteed rights)
> tax/taxation
> 
> democracy
> republicanism
> capitalism
> communism
> socialism
> fascism
> dictatorship
> monarchy
> anarchy
> 
> minarchism
> anarcho-capitalism
> 
> union (i.e. workers' union or teachers' union)
> 
> objectivism (pre-Ayn Rand variety)
> Objectivism (Ayn Rand variety)
> Tribalism
> 
> currency
> fiat-currency
> commodity
> stock
> stock market
> bond
> stock broker
> recession
> depression (economic variety)
> boom-bust cycle
> inflation
> deflation
> bubble (economic variety)
> embargo
> tariff
> sanction
> 
> corruption
> monopoly
> military
> military-industrial complex
> industry
> business
> corporation
> population
> citizen
> migrant
> immigrant
> nation/country/state
> nationalism
> patriotism
> spy
> treason/traitor
> border
> war
> civil war
> revolution/revolt
> terrorism
> trade
> enemy
> ally
> navy
> army
> air force
> soldier
> 
> propaganda
> subterfuge
> 
> president
> senator
> representative
> congressman
> parliament
> general
> king/queen
> dictator
> emperor/empress
> sovereign
> chieftain
> prime minister
> wanker
> 
> constitution
> bill
> act
> amendment
> 
> political party
> partisanship
> 
> vote
> pluralism
> oligarchy
> bureaucrat/bureaucratic/bureaucracy
> rule
> law
> regulation
> reform
> repeal
> 
> 
> Alright, I tried to come up with everything I could that wasn't too
> far away from the subject of politics and economics.  I thought of
> adding things in like nazi-ism or maoism, but they seemed to be too
> specific for this beginning list.  I'm sure there's more, so feel free
> to add in translations for words you think of on your own that fit the
> topic.
> 
> I know talking about politics on a forum is just asking for trouble,
> so please don't get into any arguments about what's the best political
> philosophy or anything like that if you can avoid it.  If you have a
> translation for one of the words up above, you might also break it
> down to show why the word is what it is, if applicable, but it isn't
> necessary.
> 
> Politics and language are my two great loves, so it would be nice to
> have the words for my favorite subjects to talk about while learning
> Lojban, hence the purpose of this thread.  Have fun!
> 
> -- 
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-- 
.i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du

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