Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pu8uF-0002gz-5U; Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:40:26 -0800 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19sf3360430gxk.16 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:35:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :x-google-group-id:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=1/OQoS7P4H8tuxEmOPfPDFhZwHeHG+Pjnbf/F5ndXL8=; b=Kse3Vph67zo8K7jhyyoDrxqEfBVPNL91ufJvoGv4v8C7autnClvDQ8uRVCaicY36SM q/EDSiuQixtH1j3muVBFwydHAiY4fHje98TmjiI6nUCTTV2Js6vp1i7v2iQmver5cJkK AlaGpYXkxcEMlSiV5oEWZbYTKR5+fPQx3LjQE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:x-google-group-id:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=S7/34x61t4XJnvmXjsU4o/AZABRAjpcFva8BiUHHX+QtZufymZLzF6jvm4Zg2TTFPW wvayDJOrPdMOMbnmPP2zvh/pWWUTm+pUvdeqWSMKjSbNhj67CE0VY/bGMIiJukLpHcgg HixMarXiaYPjRqIaMbr6CrOeGM+QDXQV2iuG4= Received: by 10.90.101.2 with SMTP id y2mr689038agb.27.1298921704622; Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:35:04 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.57.97 with SMTP id b33ls3141267ibh.0.p; Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.225.5 with SMTP id iq5mr421965icb.18.1298921702966; Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.225.5 with SMTP id iq5mr421963icb.18.1298921702937; Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f172.google.com (mail-iw0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id wp5si573468icb.1.2011.02.28.11.35.02 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.172; Received: by mail-iw0-f172.google.com with SMTP id 42so5047042iwl.17 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:35:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.171.74 with SMTP id i10mr2255404icz.157.1298921702697; Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:35:02 -0800 (PST) Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.42.179.131 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:35:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9b728267-66e5-4514-8a4c-861c0ca64c93@u12g2000vbf.googlegroups.com> References: <9b728267-66e5-4514-8a4c-861c0ca64c93@u12g2000vbf.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 14:35:02 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Words for Politics and Economics From: ".arpis." To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Cc: Greendogo X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Google-Group-Id: 94518172 Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba61443eae2c7f049d5cc622 Content-Length: 17780 --90e6ba61443eae2c7f049d5cc622 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'll give it a shot; I'm using http://vlasisku.lojban.org/ as my resource: Politics -> jecra'a => something that pertains to the policies governing some state/country/territory. Economics -> selpraci'e (or) jikni => the latter is an experimental gismu, so take care using it. Democrat -> la .demokrat. Republican -> la .republikan. etc. since their labels differ from country to country, time to time, and person to person, best to just give them a transliterated cmevla Freedom/Liberty (what's the difference in English, anyway) -> kamyzi'e (look into {zifre} and {terzi'e} also) Slavery... well {selbapselfu} is slave, so {nunselbapselfu} could be slavery; alternatively, look into {tolzi'e}, meaning the opposite of freedom Property -> selpo'e (or) se ponse => {ponse} describes the relationship of possession; the second place is the possessed thing. Rights -> krali => experimental gismu, relevant mentions in notes. Tax -> cteki democracy -> ka'irtrusi'o => as a concept, not as an implementation; also, this is a representative democracy, not a pure democracy; there is again, lots in the notes I'd say {ka'irtru} is a representative government, including democracy and republic, but I'm not a poly-sci student, so I don't know the nuances of all the terms. If you can define them, with key points (e.g. how do democracy and republic differ; how do socialism and communism differ) I may be able to help you better. union -> gunka grizu => at least for now; I just gave you a word pair meaning (loosely) "group of workers" currency -> jdini => Yay! {ui} a term for which the translation is easy. fiat currency -> xusra jdini (or) xusydi'i => the first is a word pair meaning "declared currency"; the second is the compound word made up from those parts, which probably can be said to mean fiat-currency commodity -> selcanja (or) se canja => canja represents the relationship of exchange of goods stock -> posfai stock market -> posfai venci'e => that would be my guess anyway; if you want to be more precise, {venci'e be fi lo posfai} meaning "market where the goods traded are stocks" bond -> jertervle => I'm not sure about this one; this is how it's glossed, but there's no definition; also, I don't actually know what a "bond" is, precisely. stock broker -> posfai canja => there doesn't seem to be a word for "broker" in the sense of "someone who buys/sells on behalf of someone else", but stock trader may be good enough for your purposes tariff -> cteki => a tariff is a kind of tax, right? {barbei cteki} is an export tax, {nerbei cteki} is an import tax sanction -> jdini sfasa => monetary punishment; is that a reasonable approximation of "sanction" corruption -> tolmarde => much more general than the english word; opposite of ethical military -> bilni industry -> gundi corporation -> kagni population -> se gugde => people living in country citizen -> se gugde => person living in country migrant -> gugmu'u => person moving from one country to another nation/country/state -> gugde nationalism -> natpamtrusi'o => {natpa'i} is a nationalist/patriot spy -> mipyzga => in the sense of "secret obsever" border -> korbi war -> jamna civil war -> sezyjamna => "self war" revolt -> flapro => closer to "rebel" terrorist -> tepygau => this doesn't distinguish between terrorist and fearmonger; "someone who makes someone else fear something" trade -> canja enemy -> bradi ally -> tolbradi => best guess; there isn't a root word, but "opposite of enemy" seems reasonable army -> jenmi => any army; not just ground forces navy -> xasyjei => best guess; "sea army" air force -> voljei (or) vijyjei (or) tanjei => flying army, aircraft army, sky army; all best guesses solder -> sonci various leaders: look at gugja'a, viptru, trurajlu king -> nolraitru, noltrunau => look up {turni}, which is the general word for governor/ruler senate -> flazautrugri => {te flazautrugri} is/are senators house of reps -> flacfatrugri congress/parliment -> flatrugri => best guess general -> bilrajlu => "military leader"; best guess wanker -> sezgle => "self fucker" political party -> trudjigri vote -> gubycu'a rule -> javni law -> flalu Hope that's enough to get you started/interested. On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:59 AM, Greendogo wrote: > So I checked some of the dictionaries floating about and I wasn't able > to find "words" to use in political discourse. I made a list of > several words I'd like to know the Lojban equivalents for, including > some basic English nouns and words used to refer to people of > different political leanings: > > Politics > Economics > > Democrat > Republican > Libertarian/libertarianism > Liberal > Conservative > Socialist > Statist > > Liberty > Freedom > Slavery > > Property > Rights (natural rights) > Rights (guaranteed rights) > tax/taxation > > democracy > republicanism > capitalism > communism > socialism > fascism > dictatorship > monarchy > anarchy > > minarchism > anarcho-capitalism > > union (i.e. workers' union or teachers' union) > > objectivism (pre-Ayn Rand variety) > Objectivism (Ayn Rand variety) > Tribalism > > currency > fiat-currency > commodity > stock > stock market > bond > stock broker > recession > depression (economic variety) > boom-bust cycle > inflation > deflation > bubble (economic variety) > embargo > tariff > sanction > > corruption > monopoly > military > military-industrial complex > industry > business > corporation > population > citizen > migrant > immigrant > nation/country/state > nationalism > patriotism > spy > treason/traitor > border > war > civil war > revolution/revolt > terrorism > trade > enemy > ally > navy > army > air force > soldier > > propaganda > subterfuge > > president > senator > representative > congressman > parliament > general > king/queen > dictator > emperor/empress > sovereign > chieftain > prime minister > wanker > > constitution > bill > act > amendment > > political party > partisanship > > vote > pluralism > oligarchy > bureaucrat/bureaucratic/bureaucracy > rule > law > regulation > reform > repeal > > > Alright, I tried to come up with everything I could that wasn't too > far away from the subject of politics and economics. I thought of > adding things in like nazi-ism or maoism, but they seemed to be too > specific for this beginning list. I'm sure there's more, so feel free > to add in translations for words you think of on your own that fit the > topic. > > I know talking about politics on a forum is just asking for trouble, > so please don't get into any arguments about what's the best political > philosophy or anything like that if you can avoid it. If you have a > translation for one of the words up above, you might also break it > down to show why the word is what it is, if applicable, but it isn't > necessary. > > Politics and language are my two great loves, so it would be nice to > have the words for my favorite subjects to talk about while learning > Lojban, hence the purpose of this thread. Have fun! > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .arpis. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --90e6ba61443eae2c7f049d5cc622 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'll give it a shot; I'm using http://vlasisku.lojban.org/ as my resource:

Politics -> j= ecra'a =3D> something that pertains to the policies governing some s= tate/country/territory.
Economics -> selpraci'e (or) jikni =3D> the latter is an experime= ntal gismu, so take care using it.

Democrat -> la .demokrat.
R= epublican -> la .republikan.
etc.
since their labels differ from c= ountry to country, time to time, and person to person, best to just give th= em a transliterated cmevla

Freedom/Liberty (what's the difference in English, anyway) -> ka= myzi'e (look into {zifre} and {terzi'e} also)
Slavery...
well= {selbapselfu} is slave, so {nunselbapselfu} could be slavery; alternativel= y, look into {tolzi'e}, meaning the opposite of freedom

Property -> selpo'e (or) se ponse =3D> {ponse} describes the = relationship of possession; the second place is the possessed thing.
Rig= hts -> krali =3D> experimental gismu, relevant mentions in notes.
Tax -> cteki

democracy -> ka'irtrusi'o =3D> as a co= ncept, not as an implementation; also, this is a representative democracy, = not a pure democracy; there is again, lots in the notes
I'd say {ka&= #39;irtru} is a representative government, including democracy and republic= , but I'm not a poly-sci student, so I don't know the nuances of al= l the terms.
If you can define them, with key points (e.g. how do democracy and republic= differ; how do socialism and communism differ) I may be able to help you b= etter.

union -> gunka grizu =3D> at least for now; I just gave= you a word pair meaning (loosely) "group of workers"

currency -> jdini =3D> Yay! {ui} a term for which the translation= is easy.
fiat currency -> xusra jdini (or) xusydi'i =3D> the = first is a word pair meaning "declared currency"; the second is t= he compound word made up from those parts, which probably can be said to me= an fiat-currency
commodity -> selcanja (or) se canja =3D> canja represents the relatio= nship of exchange of goods
stock -> posfai
stock market -> posf= ai venci'e =3D> that would be my guess anyway; if you want to be mor= e precise, {venci'e be fi lo posfai} meaning "market where the goo= ds traded are stocks"
bond -> jertervle =3D> I'm not sure about this one; this is how i= t's glossed, but there's no definition; also, I don't actually = know what a "bond" is, precisely.
stock broker -> posfai ca= nja =3D> there doesn't seem to be a word for "broker" in t= he sense of "someone who buys/sells on behalf of someone else", b= ut stock trader may be good enough for your purposes

tariff -> cteki =3D> a tariff is a kind of tax, right? {barbei ct= eki} is an export tax, {nerbei cteki} is an import tax
sanction -> jd= ini sfasa =3D> monetary punishment; is that a reasonable approximation o= f "sanction"

corruption -> tolmarde =3D> much more general than the english wo= rd; opposite of ethical
military -> bilni
industry -> gundi
= corporation -> kagni
population -> se gugde =3D> people living = in country
citizen -> se gugde =3D> person living in country
migrant -> gu= gmu'u =3D> person moving from one country to another
nation/count= ry/state -> gugde
nationalism -> natpamtrusi'o =3D> {natpa&= #39;i} is a nationalist/patriot
spy -> mipyzga =3D> in the sense of "secret obsever"
bor= der -> korbi
war -> jamna
civil war -> sezyjamna =3D> &qu= ot;self war"
revolt -> flapro =3D> closer to "rebel"= ;
terrorist -> tepygau =3D> this doesn't distinguish between terror= ist and fearmonger; "someone who makes someone else fear something&quo= t;
trade -> canja
enemy -> bradi
ally -> tolbradi =3D>= best guess; there isn't a root word, but "opposite of enemy"= seems reasonable
army -> jenmi =3D> any army; not just ground forces
navy -> xas= yjei =3D> best guess; "sea army"
air force -> voljei (or= ) vijyjei (or) tanjei =3D> flying army, aircraft army, sky army; all bes= t guesses
solder -> sonci

various leaders: look at gugja'a, viptru, tru= rajlu
king -> nolraitru, noltrunau =3D> look up {turni}, which is = the general word for governor/ruler
senate -> flazautrugri =3D> {t= e flazautrugri} is/are senators
house of reps -> flacfatrugri
congress/parliment -> flatrugri =3D&= gt; best guess
general -> bilrajlu =3D> "military leader"= ;; best guess
wanker -> sezgle =3D> "self fucker"
political party -> trudjigri
vote -> gubycu'a
rule -> javni
law -> flalu

Hope = that's enough to get you started/interested.

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:59 AM, Greendogo <pcm1123@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
So I checked some= of the dictionaries floating about and I wasn't able
to find "words" to use in political discourse. =A0I made a list o= f
several words I'd like to know the Lojban equivalents for, including some basic English nouns and words used to refer to people of
different political leanings:

Politics
Economics

Democrat
Republican
Libertarian/libertarianism
Liberal
Conservative
Socialist
Statist

Liberty
Freedom
Slavery

Property
Rights (natural rights)
Rights (guaranteed rights)
tax/taxation

democracy
republicanism
capitalism
communism
socialism
fascism
dictatorship
monarchy
anarchy

minarchism
anarcho-capitalism

union (i.e. workers' union or teachers' union)

objectivism (pre-Ayn Rand variety)
Objectivism (Ayn Rand variety)
Tribalism

currency
fiat-currency
commodity
stock
stock market
bond
stock broker
recession
depression (economic variety)
boom-bust cycle
inflation
deflation
bubble (economic variety)
embargo
tariff
sanction

corruption
monopoly
military
military-industrial complex
industry
business
corporation
population
citizen
migrant
immigrant
nation/country/state
nationalism
patriotism
spy
treason/traitor
border
war
civil war
revolution/revolt
terrorism
trade
enemy
ally
navy
army
air force
soldier

propaganda
subterfuge

president
senator
representative
congressman
parliament
general
king/queen
dictator
emperor/empress
sovereign
chieftain
prime minister
wanker

constitution
bill
act
amendment

political party
partisanship

vote
pluralism
oligarchy
bureaucrat/bureaucratic/bureaucracy
rule
law
regulation
reform
repeal


Alright, I tried to come up with everything I could that wasn't too
far away from the subject of politics and economics. =A0I thought of
adding things in like nazi-ism or maoism, but they seemed to be too
specific for this beginning list. =A0I'm sure there's more, so feel= free
to add in translations for words you think of on your own that fit the
topic.

I know talking about politics on a forum is just asking for trouble,
so please don't get into any arguments about what's the best politi= cal
philosophy or anything like that if you can avoid it. =A0If you have a
translation for one of the words up above, you might also break it
down to show why the word is what it is, if applicable, but it isn't necessary.

Politics and language are my two great loves, so it would be nice to
have the words for my favorite subjects to talk about while learning
Lojban, hence the purpose of this thread. =A0Have fun!

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com.
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--
mu'o mi'= e .arpis.

--
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