Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q2mFN-0001b8-E8; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:14:54 -0700 Received: by fxm14 with SMTP id 14sf308809fxm.16 for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:14:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=VgOEmb/+mDXlVC9q4WK4i+Ewf2gGu/7kfYr1MtX0oZY=; b=znLncZ+BQoRgQUXyFvCC3Jt6xLUALjlrnRpWRzg9ZMsNXX1TiJh898uFWrxB4FcQuP jrKHskCm5Zi5C26L7oKBP0tyUt6gXMuTxtgwhd9LEinlFOgZxUDYj3Zxq/5b5whWbTRb w5ibkgq7tF2vZhLjtUbaxYpauUmndyT/H3ZqA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=6E48VzjSEwmq6IMJxlXLB+IaMF6BGsy1EsVlg11jqTBX4igUvxnSF7Y/t4X/uzDsQp kb2RoYEmZiiSZqUOp//iN5kz8wZ75Do5YK+FJOMfYQpRS/1sT3O7ufnFg9WCgnP4vzq1 nRU5PtjENOm2chbpmzga17GX1G8WGpTwYfdms= Received: by 10.223.121.83 with SMTP id g19mr1214751far.48.1300979671557; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:14:31 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.75.35 with SMTP id w35ls378218bkj.3.p; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.10.73 with SMTP id o9mr1117535bko.17.1300979670356; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.10.73 with SMTP id o9mr1117534bko.17.1300979670336; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f54.google.com (mail-fx0-f54.google.com [209.85.161.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t11si1268bkf.6.2011.03.24.08.14.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.54; Received: by mail-fx0-f54.google.com with SMTP id 11so170124fxm.41 for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:14:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.6.11 with SMTP id 11mr9564123fax.103.1300979638408; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.74.201 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:13:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8814818.617.1300823206876.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prcm18> Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 09:13:58 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151747849e352b5e049f3bedf5 Content-Length: 8138 --00151747849e352b5e049f3bedf5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:11 AM, ranoritc wrote: > It does. Unfortunately, while "ti" might translate as "this thing", > the converse isn't always true. From the CLL: "The cmavo ``ti'', > ``ta'', and ``tu'' provide only the pointing function of ``this'' and > ``that''; they are not used to refer to things that cannot be pointed > at." > > It would be like saying in English "this object composed on my > Android". > Ah, but I /can/ point to to it. All I have to do is log in to my email and open up the message. Would you say that a piece of paper is qualifies as something that can be referenced as {ti}, but the letter written on it isn't? > go'i .i uinaiku'i zo ti fanza zoi gy this thing gy na roroi soi .i > la'e zoi gy CLL gy cusku zoi gy The cmavo ``ti'', ``ta'', and ``tu'' > provide only the pointing function of ``this'' and ``that''; they are > not used to refer to things that cannot be pointed at. gy .i la'e de'u > simsa lonu cusku bau glibau zoi gy this object composed on my Android > gy > > PS note: Does "na soi" or even riskier "na roroi soi" work? > > On Mar 23, 9:52 am, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > I think a message qualifies as a thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Lindar wrote: > > > > > "ti" refers to a place or thing. I think "di'u" is much more > appropriate. > > > > > Second. > > > {ti} is demonstrative for things in physical space. We have {di'u} for > > > -this very reason-. It's like insisting on calling a gorilla a > "monkey". > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com > . > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > -- > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu > do > > zo'o > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --00151747849e352b5e049f3bedf5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:11 AM, ranorit= c <ranorith@gmai= l.com> wrote:
It does. Unfortunately, while "ti" might translate as "this = thing",
the converse isn't always true. From the CLL: "The cmavo ``ti'= ',
``ta'', and ``tu'' provide only the pointing function of ``= this'' and
``that''; they are not used to refer to things that cannot be point= ed
at."

It would be like saying in English "this object composed on my
Android".

Ah, but I /can/ point to to it. All= I have to do is log in to my email and open up the message.

Would y= ou say that a piece of paper is qualifies as something that can be referenc= ed as {ti}, but the letter written on it isn't?
=A0
go'i .i uinaiku'i zo ti fanza zoi gy this thing gy na roroi soi .i<= br> la'e zoi gy CLL gy cusku zoi gy The cmavo ``ti'', ``ta''= ;, and ``tu''
provide only the pointing function of ``this'' and ``that''= ; they are
not used to refer to things that cannot be pointed at. gy .i la'e de= 9;u
simsa lonu cusku bau glibau zoi gy this object composed on my Android
gy

PS note: Does "na soi" or even riskier "na roroi soi" w= ork?

On Mar 23, 9:52=A0am, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think a message qualifies as a thing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 1:46 P= M, Lindar <lindartheb...@yaho= o.com> wrote:
>
> > "ti" refers to a place or thing. I think "di'u= " is much more appropriate.
>
> > Second.
> > {ti} is demonstrative for things in physical space. We have {di&#= 39;u} for
> > -this very reason-. It's like insisting on calling a gorilla = a "monkey".
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups
> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.lu= k. mi patfu do
> zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--00151747849e352b5e049f3bedf5--