Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PujDC-0002Gn-IQ; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 02:23:23 -0800 Received: by yic21 with SMTP id 21sf4739510yic.16 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 02:23:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :x-google-group-id:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=EySRYIH8PNYSXMWqB7mUV4Gv9Hg6Kuw8t1/eqOQdktI=; b=ajDj1lO1jwNQVY3ZQOLgqoc4jVSt43Q8OdoIJVgg8o8jN35tbcMRGXWWAJWSbn/hM2 7HGjmdGGJF7Qbu1/pn77JuzuiskGgjleTF7cTy5yqTHrZRS/z6GQTHZ0OJmpjultcTiA tpw1tjbZ3jHjeR9W+25Qo8++AjR7Vh2xvaBQM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:x-google-group-id:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=qLIzGqwEEZF9NFTqoMh1sG8LIQdg5u1Sz5Da6SC5JnpCQAk7AZPzzxJvT6c0Z8HpVw 8/NOFP7YMFftik94CjVAFa28VkuVvZqNfE9MjjUTf6BYYrGsVl2F495OxMD7h4gAvVtD m6BM1gwykAWWbFVTCPXqaYEunjYGkqR6u3Cmk= Received: by 10.101.180.30 with SMTP id h30mr409270anp.6.1299061384232; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 02:23:04 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.176.130 with SMTP id be2ls952320ibb.1.p; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 02:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.43.62.199 with SMTP id xb7mr622306icb.58.1299061383477; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 02:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.43.62.199 with SMTP id xb7mr622305icb.58.1299061383455; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 02:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f171.google.com (mail-iw0-f171.google.com [209.85.214.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gf5si881982icb.2.2011.03.02.02.23.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 Mar 2011 02:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of oges007@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.171; Received: by iwr19 with SMTP id 19so6310381iwr.2 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 02:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.170.200 with SMTP id g8mr8064223icz.436.1299061383131; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 02:23:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.25.132 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Mar 2011 02:22:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201103012238.38772.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: Ross Ogilvie Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 21:22:33 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] More than five places? To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: oges007@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of oges007@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=oges007@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Google-Group-Id: 94518172 Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e882e487349049d7d4c0a Content-Length: 21487 --90e6ba6e882e487349049d7d4c0a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ahhh, I may have entered into this conversation and been completely misunderstanding it. Or been too vague about who "your" referred to. Or something else. As far as I know, I wasn't talking about {fai} at all. I hope I said that I find "fa_{1/0}" very amusing (though I realise I should have used lo'u ... le'u). And then I said if I came across (to use your (Jonathan) example) {mi klama faxini'upa lo karce} I would interpret that as {mi klama fu lo karce}, because python uses negative indices to number elements from the end. Yes, I think that convention might be useful, especially for dealing with selbri with more than 5 places or if you can't remember the total number of places. mu'o mi'e ros On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 12:49 AM, Ross Ogilvie wrote: > >> lu faxipafe'ino li'u u'icai >> > > .uicai zo'o I am amazed at your level of hatred. > > >> As to your earlier crazy indexing, I would interpret faxini'upa as being >> the last place in a bridi. I think it is python that uses negative indices >> to count from the end of an array. >> > > That seems really useful. {zo fai mintu lu faxini'upa li'u seki'u mu'a > lodu'u lu mi klama fu lo karce li'u mintu lu mi klama fai lo karce} > > >> Ross >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >> >>> haha, I hate jai. The tagged version of it confuses the crap out of me >>> and I don't see it often enough to really learn it for good. In light of >>> that I'm changing my proposal to: Let fai = {faxipafe'ino} >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 2:33 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 12:19 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: >>>> >>>>> haha, I don't know why {fai} would get the special privilege of being >>>>> {faxixa}. Why shouldn't that honor go to {bai}? >>>> >>>> >>>> {by. na mintu fy.} >>>> >>>> >>>>> Also, since there are lujvo with 6 places and more, wouldn't you want >>>>> to call fai something that won't change. How about {faxini'upa} or >>>>> something ;) >>>>> >>>> >>>> Wow, the first step into the nether realm. You must not much like {jai} >>>> if you imagine shoving it through Vortex Zero. :) >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 2:15 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Based on my understanding of the definitions, it seems reasonable to >>>>>> me that {fai} can easily be considered to be {faxixa}. It even has zo'o the >>>>>> right letters. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 11:47 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> actually I've seen usage like {se nelci mi fai do} which I *think* is >>>>>>> supposed to mean something like {do jai se nelci mi} >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday 01 March 2011 16:30:03 Jonathan Jones wrote: >>>>>>>> > I didn't know about the SExiPA method. It's interesting, but I >>>>>>>> think I'll >>>>>>>> > stick with FAxiPA on the rare occasions when it matters. :) >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > What about {fai}? Is it applicable in these situations? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No, {fai} is meaningful only when {jai} is also present. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pierre >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>> >>>>>> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi >>>>>> patfu do zo'o >>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi >>>> patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu > do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --90e6ba6e882e487349049d7d4c0a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ahhh, I may have entered into this conversation and been completely misunde= rstanding it. Or been too vague about who "your" referred to. Or = something else. As far as I know, I wasn't talking about {fai} at all.<= br>
I hope I said that I find "fa_{1/0}" very amusing (though I r= ealise I should have used lo'u ... le'u). And then I said if I came= across (to use your (Jonathan) example) {mi klama faxini'upa lo karce}= I would interpret that as {mi klama fu lo karce}, because python uses nega= tive indices to number elements from the end. Yes, I think that convention = might be useful, especially for dealing with selbri with more than 5 places= or if you can't remember the total number of places.

mu'o mi'e ros

On Wed, Mar 2, = 2011 at 7:02 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 12:49 A= M, Ross Ogilvie <oges007@gmail.com> wrote:
lu faxipafe'ino li'u u'icai

.uic= ai zo'o I am amazed at your level of hatred.
=A0
As to your earlier crazy indexing, I would interpret faxini'upa as bein= g the last place in a bridi. I think it is python that uses negative indice= s to count from the end of an array.

That se= ems really useful. {zo fai mintu lu faxini'upa li'u seki'u mu&#= 39;a lodu'u lu mi klama fu lo karce li'u mintu lu mi klama fai lo k= arce}
=A0
Ross


On Wed, = Mar 2, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
haha, I hate jai. =A0The tagged version of it confuses the crap out of me a= nd I don't see it often enough to really learn it for good. =A0In light= of that I'm changing my proposal to: Let fai =3D {faxipafe'ino}


On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 2:33 AM, Jonathan Jones <= span dir=3D"ltr"><eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 12:19 AM, Luke Berge= n <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
haha, I don't know why {fai} would get the special=A0privilege of being= {faxixa}. =A0Why shouldn't that honor go to {bai}?
=

{by. na mintu fy.}
=A0
=A0Also, since there are lujvo with 6 places and more, wouldn't you wan= t to call fai something that won't change. =A0How about {faxini'upa= } or something ;)

Wow, the first step into t= he nether realm. You must not much like {jai} if you imagine shoving it thr= ough Vortex Zero. :)

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 2:15= AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
<= div> Based on my understanding of the definitions, it seems reasonable to me tha= t {fai} can easily be considered to be {faxixa}. It even has zo'o the r= ight letters.

On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 11:47 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:


On = Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Tuesday 01 Marc= h 2011 16:30:03 Jonathan Jones wrote:
> I didn't know about the SExiPA method. It's interesting, but I= think I'll
> stick with FAxiPA on the rare occasions when it matters. :)
>
> What about {fai}? Is it applicable in these situations?

No, {fai} is meaningful only when {jai} is also present.

Pierre
--
The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain.

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--
mu= 9;o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pil= no be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! L= uke, I am your father. :D )

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e = ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o<= br> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a&#= 39;o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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