Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PupKU-0002CZ-5Q; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:55:17 -0800 Received: by yxd5 with SMTP id 5sf40991yxd.16 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:55:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :x-google-group-id:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=vuYW2gk8TAtAUT0hOmSMk0HX1ayZREB6K5pGoUZTw1A=; b=dUp0otQsnMoqiMDmN+TrPT6Ckqxlhn/6qkv8t3rS4C5Tn7+p7rPhVWuvVPgoAhWO77 kSK9xuFb5W8BSkYSDVKPQY9uIOID0PajaHa2Ec2v4vADAkd+edlO+ZUGRDxRJ0IuOL7T MhCi1fvo0mn7S89y5AYQaV3R1bOObEAIsVWuY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:x-google-group-id:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=5+bgNpEzbumU2vP60NuLcqrAFhS8kKEO2ur6g2VL2jpvn71b7Fjwl/OIbIlR1quXzM cgPNcm9HclLkZH7Xqny2gLijvXAHCbZS4AI8hajO8P91sjky5aB0NZeeYkT6Pgjw5l4z WbDf8TVNdd2/64xLJei8cJSIBiX5rVBVGiix0= Received: by 10.150.185.6 with SMTP id i6mr70422ybf.75.1299084900317; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:55:00 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.2.82 with SMTP id 18ls66730ibi.2.p; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.213.137 with SMTP id gw9mr13128icb.10.1299084899479; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.213.137 with SMTP id gw9mr13127icb.10.1299084899459; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f172.google.com (mail-iw0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c4si23117ict.0.2011.03.02.08.54.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.172; Received: by mail-iw0-f172.google.com with SMTP id 42so129371iwl.31 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.11.2 with SMTP id r2mr58417ibr.174.1299084899204; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:54:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.199.141 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:54:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <42f9eaf8-897b-499c-89b3-9bef2a378c9f@m7g2000vbq.googlegroups.com> From: Luke Bergen Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:54:39 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] question about soi and go'i To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532ca38f33fe6049d82c5a0 Content-Length: 9189 --00221532ca38f33fe6049d82c5a0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Oh. So {vo'a} refers to the outermost bridi, not the last bridi? So then I guess {vo'a} should not be used for something like: A: mi broda B: .i vo'a ji'a brode On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 1:56 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> Or you can just say {.i xu ji'a ny viska do}. Also, while I love the >> construct, I haven't seen a lot of vo'a and friends around. I hope to see >> them more though, they seem awfully useful. >> >> Although, I'm not 100% sure what the difference is between {vo'a} and {lo >> go'i}. >> >> > Although I don't really use "soi", "vo'a" appears 10 times in Esther. > It's very useful in sub-bridi, since it refers to the x1 of the main > (outermost) bridi. "lo go'i" on the other hand refers to the x1 of the > previous bridi. ("lo no'a" would be closer to vo'a, but that only pops up > one level.) > --gejyspa > > > >> >> On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM, zegma wrote: >> >>> coi rodo >>> I am a beginner lojbanist, i've read the seventh chapter of Lojban >>> Reference Grammar about pro-bridi and pro-sumti and there is something >>> I don't understand about "soi" ; >>> if I want to question the reciprocity of the previous utterance of my >>> interlocutor, can I use "soi"? >>> If I use soi this way, I have to use go'i to pick up the previous >>> bridi, then a new question arise ; should I use pro-sumti like "ri" >>> with soi, or does reflexive pro-sumti of the vo'a serie apply? >>> >>> For exemple, if my interlocutor said "mi viska le nanmu" >>> if I want to ask "is it reciprocal?" >>> should I say something like "xu go'i ra'o soi vo'a vo'e" ? >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --00221532ca38f33fe6049d82c5a0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh. =A0So {vo'a} refers to the outermost bridi, not the last bridi?=A0<= div>
So then I guess {vo'a} should not be used for something like:
A: mi broda
B: .i vo'a ji'a brode

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Michael Turniansky <<= a href=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com">mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:


On We= d, Mar 2, 2011 at 1:56 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com><= /span> wrote:
Or you can just say {.i xu ji'a ny viska do}. =A0Also, while I love the= construct, I haven't seen a lot of vo'a and friends around. =A0I h= ope to see them more though, they seem awfully useful.

Although, I'm not 100% sure what the difference is = between {vo'a} and {lo go'i}.

<= /div>

=A0 Although I don't really use "= soi", "vo'a" appears 10 times in Esther.=A0 It's ver= y useful in sub-bridi, since it refers to the x1 of the main (outermost) br= idi.=A0 "lo go'i" on the other hand refers to the x1 of the p= revious bridi.=A0 ("lo no'a" would be closer to vo'a, but= that only pops up one level.)
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa

=A0

On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM, zegma <hardquannone@hotmail.= fr> wrote:
coi rodo
I am a beginner lojbanist, i've read the seventh chapter of Lojban
Reference Grammar about pro-bridi and pro-sumti and there is something
I don't understand about "soi" ;
if I want to question the reciprocity of the previous utterance of my
interlocutor, can I use "soi"?
If I use soi this way, I have to use go'i to pick up the previous
bridi, then a new question arise ; should I use pro-sumti like "ri&quo= t;
with soi, or does reflexive pro-sumti of the vo'a serie apply?

For exemple, if my interlocutor said "mi viska le nanmu"
if I want to ask "is it reciprocal?"
should I say something like "xu go'i ra'o soi vo'a vo'= e" ?

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