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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 09:42:36 -0600
From: ".alyn.post." <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] vlastezba: First beta version released!
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I had not considered the use case of a large story, I was thinking
of individual test strings and my need to know how input was paired
with output.  Particularly, I didn't want erroneous input in one
test case to cause another input to parse incorrectly.  I can (and
should, really) work around this by calling the program multiple
times.

BTW, what result does your program produce for:

  ba'e ba'er ba'ercatra

That should be something like:

  ((cmavo (BAhE "ba'e")) (cmene "ba'er") (lujvo "ba'ercatra"))

With different results being produced depending on whether the
spaces are there or not.  I'm curious if you're handling that
correctly.

-Alan

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 05:24:31PM +0200, Johan Pretorius wrote:
>    Okay, the licensing is fixed now.
> 
>    Alan, The fact that you know that's a problem puts you in 1% of the
>    population :-)
> 
>    Anyway, I'm not diametrically opposed to XML just for the sake of being
>    opposed... it's worth looking at, especially, as you say, for
>    interoperability.
> 
>    Do you think it's necessary to include the input string? I foresee
>    vlastezba being used for large bodies of text, anyway that's how I intend
>    to use it for myself: I feed it the terry the tiger story and let it build
>    me something I can print out, which means my sucky vocabulary does not
>    stop me reading the story, albeit slowly.
> 
>    Maybe it's a good idea to make that configurable.
> 
>    -Johan
> 
>    On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:12 PM, .alyn.post.
>    <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
> 
>      I can more-or-less work with the what it does now, so that is
>      sufficient experimentation.
> 
>      I routinely write code like |if(var=="foo")| when I mean
>      |if(var.equals("foo"))|, my Java isn't what it could be.
> 
>      I'm able to parse XML for tree-structured data, which is probably
>      the easiest choice for interoperability:
> 
>      XML:
> 
>      <pruce>
>      <selruhe>coi ro do</selruhe>
>      <teryruhe>
>      <cmavo selmaho="COI">coi</cmavo>
>      <cmavo selmaho="PA">ro</cmavo>
>      <cmavo selmaho="KOhA">do</cmavo>
>      </teryruhe>
>      </pruce>
> 
>      If this makes you cringe, then how about:
> 
>      csv:
> 
>      klesi,valsi
>      COI,coi
>      PA,ro
>      KOhA,do
> 
>      Which unfortunately doesn't include the input string; I don't see a
>      simple way to do that that is normal (as in normal form).
> 
>      -Alan
>      On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 04:51:51PM +0200, Johan Pretorius wrote:
>      > Hi Alan,
>      >
>      > That would indeed be an interesting experiment, I'd be quite keen to
>      see
>      > the results myself.
>      >
>      > Right now, if you just call
>      >
>      > java -jar vlastezba.jar test.txt
>      >
>      > with some Lojban text (legal or otherwise) in test.txt, it will return
>      (on
>      > stdout), one valsi per line. So "coirodo" would result in:
>      > coi
>      > ro
>      > do
>      > (you can make it go look up the definitions by passing a second
>      parameter,
>      > but it will just add junk to the output that I don't think you'd want)
>      >
>      > Right now it doesn't check grammar at all, so you can throw any random
>      > collection of words at it (I don't intend for it to ever do this,
>      there
>      > are tools out there that are far better at this than I could ever hope
>      to
>      > make it).
>      >
>      > It also won't give you a classification of valsi - it doesn't "know"
>      when
>      > it's dealing with a cmavo (or indeed what class), or a gismu, or a
>      lujvo.
>      > This I DO intend to fix.
>      >
>      > I want to add other output formats anyway, so if you want me to do
>      > something specific to make your comparison easier, let me know. Now
>      would
>      > be a good time, as I'm going away on holiday for a week, and wanted to
>      > spend at least a little bit of time on vlastezba.
>      >
>      > In fact, if you are comfortable with Java, feel free to make it do
>      what
>      > you need, the source code is on [1][2]sourceforge.net
>      > ([2][3]http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlastezba/), and is GPL'ed :-)
>      >
>      > mu'o mi'e iu'an
>      >
>      > On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 4:29 PM, .alyn.post.
>      > <[3][4]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>      >
>      > Do you have an external representation for your valsi parsing
>      > result? If I hand you the string "coirodo" is there a print
>      > form of that along the lines of ("coi" "ro" "do")?
>      >
>      > I would be interested seeing the result from processing a large
>      > data set of words and phrases and comparing that to jbogenturfa'i.
>      > In order to do this I'd need some output format from your program
>      > that I could parse.
>      >
>      > jbogenturfa'i uses the morphology PEG grammar that xorxes developed,
>      > so it contains code which I think is similar (and should be
>      > identical in result) to what you are doing:
>      >
>      > $ echo "coirodo"|jbogenturfahi --rafske
>      > ((cmavo (COI "coi")) (cmavo (PA "ro")) (cmavo (KOhA "do")))
>      >
>      > I'd be curious to know whether they are in fact producing identical
>      > results.
>      >
>      > -Alan
>      > On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:02:28AM +0200, Johan Pretorius wrote:
>      > > Hi all
>      > >
>      > > You can download it from here:
>      > >
>      >
>      [1][4][5]http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlastezba/files/vlastezba.jar/download
>      > >
>      > > I have completed the cmavo cluster breakout code, and tested it as
>      far
>      > as
>      > > I was able.
>      > >
>      > > It should be easy enough to run if you have Java 1.6 installed, just
>      > go
>      > > java -jar vlastezba.jar and it will print out usage instructions.
>      > >
>      > > Please download it and test to pieces! I'd love all your feedback.
>      > >
>      > > Not that it doesn't get very smart at this stage - for instance, it
>      > won't
>      > > know what to do if you feed it a string of lojban that doesn't have
>      > any
>      > > spaces in. The only clever bit is that it's able to break apart
>      cmavo
>      > > clusters if they don't have any spaces.
>      > >
>      > > Regards,
>      > > Johan
>      > >
>      > > --
>      > > Johan Pretorius
>      > > Cell: 0829268327
>      > > [2][5][6]pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>      > >
>      > > --
>      > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>      > Groups
>      > > "Lojban Beginners" group.
>      > > To post to this group, send email to
>      > [6][7]lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>      > > [7][8]lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>      > > For more options, visit this group at
>      > > [8][9]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>      > >
>      > > References
>      > >
>      > > Visible links
>      > > 1.
>      >
>      [9][10]http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlastezba/files/vlastezba.jar/download
>      > > 2. mailto:[10][11]pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>      >
>      > --
>      > .i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du
>      > --
>      > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>      > Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
>      > To post to this group, send email to
>      > [11][12]lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>      > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>      > [12][13]lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>      > For more options, visit this group at
>      > [13][14]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>      >
>      > --
>      > Johan Pretorius
>      > Cell: 0829268327
>      > [14][15]pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>      >
>      > --
>      > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>      Groups
>      > "Lojban Beginners" group.
>      > To post to this group, send email to
>      [16]lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>      > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>      > [17]lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>      > For more options, visit this group at
>      > [18]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>      >
>      > References
>      >
>      > Visible links
>      > 1. [19]http://sourceforge.net/
>      > 2. [20]http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlastezba/
>      > 3. mailto:[21]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
>      > 4.
>      [22]http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlastezba/files/vlastezba.jar/download
>      > 5. mailto:[23]pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>      > 6. mailto:[24]lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>      > 7. mailto:[25]lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>      > 8. [26]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en
>      > 9.
>      [27]http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlastezba/files/vlastezba.jar/download
>      > 10. mailto:[28]pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>      > 11. mailto:[29]lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>      > 12. mailto:[30]lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>      > 13. [31]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en
>      > 14. mailto:[32]pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>      --
>      .i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du
> 
>      --
>      You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>      Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
>      To post to this group, send email to
>      [33]lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>      To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>      [34]lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>      For more options, visit this group at
>      [35]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> 
>    --
>    Johan Pretorius
>    Cell: 0829268327
>    [36]pretoriusjf@gmail.com
> 
>    --
>    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>    "Lojban Beginners" group.
>    To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>    lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>    For more options, visit this group at
>    http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> 
> References
> 
>    Visible links
>    1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
>    2. http://sourceforge.net/
>    3. http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlastezba/
>    4. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
>    5. http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlastezba/files/vlastezba.jar/download
>    6. mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>    7. mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>    8. mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>    9. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en
>   10. http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlastezba/files/vlastezba.jar/download
>   11. mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>   12. mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>   13. mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>   14. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en
>   15. mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>   16. mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>   17. mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>   18. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en
>   19. http://sourceforge.net/
>   20. http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlastezba/
>   21. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
>   22. http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlastezba/files/vlastezba.jar/download
>   23. mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>   24. mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>   25. mailto:lojban-beginners%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>   26. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en
>   27. http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlastezba/files/vlastezba.jar/download
>   28. mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>   29. mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>   30. mailto:lojban-beginners%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>   31. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en
>   32. mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>   33. mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>   34. mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>   35. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en
>   36. mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com

-- 
.i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du

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