Received: from mail-ew0-f61.google.com ([209.85.215.61])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBC16ZHtBBoEmiHdhg@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1Q9g00-00034L-Hl; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:59:32 -0700
Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5sf726916ewy.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:59:22 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version
         :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post
         :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe
         :content-type;
        bh=QXZ/EF4dYfeq7oBBRco9xGBkLZZfO3mPtiTyZQ9t7iU=;
        b=jtXodLpE3TBv62ue8qqTnL1YbH7M4eZe6MJgH88yd5aBeOtLWk7xtsaO/uWM0rRhtJ
         BTJT9ZKUUfgWnHPU9GANg6ilF1kJzwVgRzcJNy63oTAW/dj58Nu8yxe5yNfTvvoei1lI
         FRNlPqGibi7fl6oVUZ2gdnSVFzyQYMOPiHM4M=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from
         :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        b=PlhJomJOF9Ijq171vvhs4q47zRZaTiL5vEbRoCMnfqUnK9IZmvyE+9jZgVu5mhchAz
         rXaorEl5HZ7p+5BxE5abcye9LvslN+kUoldRmlAtn5Fy7t60ewFjt82KludhoWIsEc03
         ihufvqJQ7LePRIC9a1ySf2/q8ZcjaeSZ28uHs=
Received: by 10.213.2.65 with SMTP id 1mr2345469ebi.0.1302623413310;
        Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:50:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.14.25.139 with SMTP id z11ls613172eez.0.p; Tue, 12 Apr 2011
 08:50:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.14.11.83 with SMTP id 59mr689349eew.13.1302623412111;
        Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:50:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.14.11.83 with SMTP id 59mr689348eew.13.1302623412087;
        Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:50:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ew0-f52.google.com (mail-ew0-f52.google.com [209.85.215.52])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l57si2236317eei.0.2011.04.12.08.50.12
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:50:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.52;
Received: by ewy28 with SMTP id 28so2964394ewy.11
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:50:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.213.113.140 with SMTP id a12mr1630227ebq.98.1302623411212;
 Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:50:11 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.213.33.75 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:49:51 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimxjvR2wDMcU0Kbg7MPBDpKAZOeOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimxjvR2wDMcU0Kbg7MPBDpKAZOeOg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:49:51 -0400
Message-ID: <BANLkTimQA_q5_cmvHn2XeRgJHxjift=qvA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] BAI confusion
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.52 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c3e16b3929504a0baa591
Content-Length: 5857

--0015174c3e16b3929504a0baa591
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I've been confused by anything other than plain vanilla use of BAI on a
number of occasions myself.

The way I've come to think of them (and tags in general) is to think of them
as marking the following sumti as being related to the bridi/whatever by the
tag.

i.e.  {bai lo gerku} = "the dog (which is related to the bridi in a
'compelled by' kind of way)".  Or {mi citka lo plise ba lo nu mi klama lo
zdani} is saying that the sumti {lo nu mi klama lo zdani} is related to the
bridi in a "ba" kind of way (that is, the bridi is {ba} to the sumti).

Likewise, if I see BAI coming before a sumti I think of it like "ok, here
comes a sumti, but it's a kind that is related to (whatever) in a BAI kind
of way".

So I would read {mi ne tedu'o lo mikce saske} as "{mi ne lo mikce saske (but
the sumti lo mikce saske is related to mi in a tedu'o kind of way)}" => "I
who am knowing about the doctor science am able to help" => "I know about
medical science, I can help".

I'm on pretty unstable mental ground with regard to TAGs though, so if any
{jbocre} think that I'm off please speak up.

Where did you see this by the way?

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Alex Rozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.com>wrote:

> So I thought I understood lojban modals... then I found this:
> {*mi ne te du'o lo mikce saske cu ka'e sidju*}
>
> Given what I know of GOI (TIL that {ne} is a member of GOI) and BAI, this
> doesn't make sense.  The only way I can make sense of this is to think of
> BAI + sumti => sumti (more or less).  Is this the case?
>
> --
>           Alex R
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.


--0015174c3e16b3929504a0baa591
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I&#39;ve been confused by anything other than plain vanilla use of BAI on a=
 number of occasions myself.<div><br></div><div>The way I&#39;ve come to th=
ink of them (and tags in general) is to think of them as marking the follow=
ing sumti as being related to the bridi/whatever by the tag.</div>

<div><br></div><div>i.e. =A0{bai lo gerku} =3D &quot;the dog (which is rela=
ted to the bridi in a &#39;compelled by&#39; kind of way)&quot;. =A0Or {mi =
citka lo plise ba lo nu mi klama lo zdani} is saying that the sumti {lo nu =
mi klama lo zdani} is related to the bridi in a &quot;ba&quot; kind of way =
(that is, the bridi is {ba} to the sumti).</div>

<div><br></div><div>Likewise, if I see BAI coming before a sumti I think of=
 it like &quot;ok, here comes a sumti, but it&#39;s a kind that is related =
to (whatever) in a BAI kind of way&quot;.</div><div><br></div><div>So I wou=
ld read {mi ne tedu&#39;o lo mikce saske} as &quot;{mi ne lo mikce saske (b=
ut the sumti lo mikce saske is related to mi in a tedu&#39;o kind of way)}&=
quot; =3D&gt; &quot;I who am knowing about the doctor science am able to he=
lp&quot; =3D&gt; &quot;I know about medical science, I can help&quot;.</div=
>

<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m on pretty unstable mental ground with regard to=
 TAGs though, so if any {jbocre} think that I&#39;m off please speak up.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Where did you see this by the way?</div><div><br>

<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Alex Rozenshte=
yn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rpglover64@gmail.com">rpglover64=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

So I thought I understood lojban modals... then I found this:<br>{<em>mi ne=
 te du&#39;o lo mikce saske cu ka&#39;e sidju</em>}<br><br>Given what I kno=
w of GOI (TIL that {ne} is a member of GOI) and BAI, this doesn&#39;t make =
sense.=A0 The only way I can make sense of this is to think of BAI + sumti =
=3D&gt; sumti (more or less).=A0 Is this the case?<br>


<br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R</div></div><b=
r><font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
glegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-begi=
nners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners+un=
subscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>

For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</font></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



--0015174c3e16b3929504a0baa591--