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	<20110421123557.GA71258@alice.local>
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:42:40 +0200
Message-ID: <BANLkTimtuh8-sNtiYVnGi6nhfSV8L3yKLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] vlastezba: First beta version released!
From: Johan Pretorius <pretoriusjf@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
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Hi Alan

I thought I would have a quick look before going to bed... and it seems
that  the troublesome word forms you mention are mostly (99%) cmavo that
don't start with a consonant.

When writing vlastezba, I tried to adhere as strictly as possible to the
word forms specified in the CLL, in section 4.2:  In there, all cmavo that
start with a vowel should have a dot pre-pended.  So the forms, as I
understand them, are as follows, where any two adjacent vowels may or may
not have a ' inserted between them:
.V
.y.
CV
.VV
CVV
Cy
CVVV (experimental use only)

The only dot I could find in cmavo.txt was in "na.a", which seems like a
mistake to me.  Anyway, I took cmavo.txt, prepended dots to all lines
starting with a vowel, ran it again - this time vlastezba choked on "ybu".
I remember now that I hadn't defined y as either a consonant or a vowel,
because the CLL was clear that it is NOT a vowel, but it wasn't at all clear
that it was a consonant.  Indeed, if "ybu" is a valid cmavo, that would seem
to imply that "y" is a vowel, yet I clearly recall reading a list of vowels
that excluded "y", with the explanation that it isn't really a vowel.

So I removed the "ybu" line from the file, and this time it parsed okay (see
attached cmavo_dots.stdout).  Do you mind running the attached
cmavo_dots.txt through jbogenturfa'i to see if  we get fewer than 80
discrepancies this time (I would do it myself, but I don't have a copy of
jbogenturfa'i or, for that matter, a copy of Linux)

So I have three questions:
1) Is "y" a vowel or a consonant?
2) Are dots before vowel-only cmavo required or not?
3) If the dots are required, am I being reasonable to expect them to be
present?

-Johan

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 2:35 PM, .alyn.post. <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> wrote:

> vlastezba crashes on 80 of the 2433 tests.  For the remaining tests,
> it produces results consistent with jbogenturfa'i.  I suspect most
> of these tests are crashing on the same or nearly the same problem;
> they're clustered in the input around certain word forms.
>


-- 
Johan Pretorius
Cell: 0829268327
pretoriusjf@gmail.com

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Hi Alan<br><br>I thought I would have a quick look before going to bed... a=
nd it seems that=A0 the troublesome word forms you mention are mostly (99%)=
 cmavo that don&#39;t start with a consonant.<br><br>When writing vlastezba=
, I tried to adhere as strictly as possible to the word forms specified in =
the CLL, in section 4.2:=A0 In there, all cmavo that start with a vowel sho=
uld have a dot pre-pended.=A0 So the forms, as I understand them, are as fo=
llows, where any two adjacent vowels may or may not have a &#39; inserted b=
etween them:<br>
.V<br>.y.<br>CV<br>.VV<br>CVV<br>Cy<br>CVVV (experimental use only)<br><br>=
The only dot I could find in cmavo.txt was in &quot;na.a&quot;, which seems=
 like a mistake to me.=A0 Anyway, I took cmavo.txt, prepended dots to all l=
ines starting with a vowel, ran it again - this time vlastezba choked on &q=
uot;ybu&quot;.=A0 I remember now that I hadn&#39;t defined y as either a co=
nsonant or a vowel, because the CLL was clear that it is NOT a vowel, but i=
t wasn&#39;t at all clear that it was a consonant.=A0 Indeed, if &quot;ybu&=
quot; is a valid cmavo, that would seem to imply that &quot;y&quot; is a vo=
wel, yet I clearly recall reading a list of vowels that excluded &quot;y&qu=
ot;, with the explanation that it isn&#39;t really a vowel.=A0 <br>
<br>So I removed the &quot;ybu&quot; line from the file, and this time it p=
arsed okay (see attached cmavo_dots.stdout).=A0 Do you mind running the att=
ached cmavo_dots.txt through jbogenturfa&#39;i to see if=A0 we get fewer th=
an 80 discrepancies this time (I would do it myself, but I don&#39;t have a=
 copy of jbogenturfa&#39;i or, for that matter, a copy of Linux)<br>
<br>So I have three questions:<br>1) Is &quot;y&quot; a vowel or a consonan=
t?<br>2) Are dots before vowel-only cmavo required or not?<br>3) If the dot=
s are required, am I being reasonable to expect them to be present?<br>
<br>-Johan<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 2:35 P=
M, .alyn.post. <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alyn.post@lodockikum=
azvati.org">alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div id=3D":vo">vlastezba crashes on 80 of the 2433 tests. =A0For the remai=
ning tests,<br>
it produces results consistent with jbogenturfa&#39;i. =A0I suspect most<br=
>
of these tests are crashing on the same or nearly the same problem;<br>
they&#39;re clustered in the input around certain word forms.</div></blockq=
uote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Johan Pretorius<div>Cell: 08292=
68327</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
pretoriusjf@gmail.com</a></div>
<br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />


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