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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:01:12 -0600
From: ".alyn.post." <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] vlastezba: First beta version released!
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Here are the definitions of consonants and vowels from the PEG file:


  consonant <- voiced
             / unvoiced
             / syllabic

  syllabic <- l / m / n / r

  voiced <- b / d / g / j / v / z
  unvoiced <- c / f / k / p / s / t / x

  vowel <- a / e / i / o / u

You'll have to ask another question.  :-)

ybu is valid, it being the y letteral in selma'o BY (I believe it has
also been two words, Y+BU, in the past though I could be wrong about
that.  For your purposes either definition is probably ok.)

Will you quote the phrase you're referring to regarding pauses?  I
see this one:

  The cmavo =93.u'e=94 begins with a vowel, and like all words
  beginning with a vowel, requires a pause (represented by =93.=94)
  before it.

I understand "represented" to be different than "required."  In
particular, these lines are all the same:

  .a'e.i'o
  a'e.i'o
  a'e i'o
  .a'e i'o

In that '.' and ' ' are the same.  In section 3.3 there is this:

  Technically, the period is an optional reminder to the reader of a
  mandatory pause that is dictated by the rules of the language;
  because these rules are unambiguous, a missing period can be
  inferred from otherwise correct text. Periods are included only as
  an aid to the reader.

  A period also may be found apparently embedded in a word. When
  this occurs, such a written string is not one word but two,
  written together to indicate that the writer intends a unitary
  meaning for the compound. It is not really necessary to use a
  space between words if a period appears.

Given my understanding of the above, I believe your requiring a
period to represent this pause to be in error.

I will rerun my baseline and reply back with it.

-Alan

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:42:40PM +0200, Johan Pretorius wrote:
>    Hi Alan
>=20
>    I thought I would have a quick look before going to bed... and it seem=
s
>    that the troublesome word forms you mention are mostly (99%) cmavo tha=
t
>    don't start with a consonant.
>=20
>    When writing vlastezba, I tried to adhere as strictly as possible to t=
he
>    word forms specified in the CLL, in section 4.2: In there, all cmavo t=
hat
>    start with a vowel should have a dot pre-pended. So the forms, as I
>    understand them, are as follows, where any two adjacent vowels may or =
may
>    not have a ' inserted between them:
>    .V
>    .y.
>    CV
>    .VV
>    CVV
>    Cy
>    CVVV (experimental use only)
>=20
>    The only dot I could find in cmavo.txt was in "na.a", which seems like=
 a
>    mistake to me. Anyway, I took cmavo.txt, prepended dots to all lines
>    starting with a vowel, ran it again - this time vlastezba choked on "y=
bu".
>    I remember now that I hadn't defined y as either a consonant or a vowe=
l,
>    because the CLL was clear that it is NOT a vowel, but it wasn't at all
>    clear that it was a consonant. Indeed, if "ybu" is a valid cmavo, that
>    would seem to imply that "y" is a vowel, yet I clearly recall reading =
a
>    list of vowels that excluded "y", with the explanation that it isn't
>    really a vowel.
>=20
>    So I removed the "ybu" line from the file, and this time it parsed oka=
y
>    (see attached cmavo_dots.stdout). Do you mind running the attached
>    cmavo_dots.txt through jbogenturfa'i to see if we get fewer than 80
>    discrepancies this time (I would do it myself, but I don't have a copy=
 of
>    jbogenturfa'i or, for that matter, a copy of Linux)
>=20
>    So I have three questions:
>    1) Is "y" a vowel or a consonant?
>    2) Are dots before vowel-only cmavo required or not?
>    3) If the dots are required, am I being reasonable to expect them to b=
e
>    present?
>=20
>    -Johan
>=20
>    On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 2:35 PM, .alyn.post.
>    <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>=20
>      vlastezba crashes on 80 of the 2433 tests. For the remaining tests,
>      it produces results consistent with jbogenturfa'i. I suspect most
>      of these tests are crashing on the same or nearly the same problem;
>      they're clustered in the input around certain word forms.
>=20
>    --
>    Johan Pretorius
>    Cell: 0829268327
>    [2]pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>=20
>    --
>    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro=
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>    To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com=
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>=20
> References
>=20
>    Visible links
>    1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
>    2. mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com



--=20
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