On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 6:21 PM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:

On 21 April 2011 12:58, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
> 1) When is = any language fully defined? Not even Lojban is fully defined.
> Being= fully defined is not a well defined concept. This was discussed here
> several months back.
> 2) Many (all?) languages lack vocabulary = for concepts in other cultures.
> Lacking words doesn't mean that= a language (Klingon, in particular) can't be
> used to talk abou= t those concepts.

Every tense/modal cmavo is supposed to be convertible to {fi'= o
SELBRI}, effectively yielding a Lojban-Lojban definition. If we
cou= ldn't so define {ka'e}, either Lojban lacks explanatory vocabulary<= br> or there's no sufficiently logical ground for the very idea of {ka'= e}
to be expressed as a bridi component.

On 21 April 2011 14:21, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:

> On Thursday 21 April 2011 01:14:38 Jonathan Jones wr= ote:
>> Ideally, /every/ Lojban word should be defined in Lojban. = And whenever a
>> word /is/, that most certainly /is/ the canonica= l definition.
>

> It's impossible to define every word in a langua= ge in the same language
> without circularity. There must be some def= initions which refer to things
> outside the language. All words for = species of organisms: "cinfo", for
> instance, is defined as any organism of breed x2 which belongs to the = species
> Panthera leo, which is in turn defined by a type specimen.<= br>
Yes, circularity is unavoidable.

=A0

Circularity is avoidable. That's the whole point of Anna Wierzbick= a's Natural Semantic Metalanguage, which assumes a small number (~62) o= f 'words' that can't be defined in terms of simpler words.

=A0

Here's the OED definition of= "lion":

"a large powerful animal of the cat family, = that hunts in groups and
lives in parts of Africa and southern Asia. Lions have yellowish-brown
f= ur and the male has a nane (=3D long thick hair round its neck)."
<= br>Every single word in it is circularly defined in other parts of the
same dictionary. But the text as a whole still describes, for speakers
o= f the language, what "lion" is.

Almost all dictionaries are unapologetic about circularity.

=A0

stevo

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