Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhCMj-btBBoEXFu3Hw@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1QFT8g-0007zw-Qu; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:28:30 -0700
Received: by fxm14 with SMTP id 14sf3268636fxm.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:28:16 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version
         :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post
         :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe
         :content-type;
        bh=pbISlRx4bYTN4BtYtAvTYSfAgEJpqUkpFUDUhLYOSbY=;
        b=va0E62B5nupzQamIyXF3oi7EBR7HPfHa9o1lGSQ41Rlp+7r7UoIw+fzWpcXkWW8Tlp
         oIiKZgveodBohLyGm887t1TjWasscUqGeI9+sTBNVTsjeCkwRdWmkaIP50zbVorzZYJO
         UsiD9ycfnRlEaXsNrKdwVct4RuBt8nwYbsk5A=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        b=DmfhObAhKTQlDAlka0O7rRX8bJeOTWYW4LbEgVdc/+MfEcvnQNFWTWoVCMVrNlSc3U
         uhem7l8BSGkfLA7mn9yqEMcRGX7ZWjVy0+3YAr5rMLdPfnewub0EQpj4Jg4LNwiXNy0M
         A4c4sXaCBHgG1WWdEYAl73JHBSO3MaijnLoJ0=
Received: by 10.223.29.76 with SMTP id p12mr544782fac.38.1304004492441;
        Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:28:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.223.51.195 with SMTP id e3ls503116fag.1.gmail; Thu, 28 Apr
 2011 08:28:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.223.14.207 with SMTP id h15mr297043faa.5.1304004491562;
        Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:28:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.223.14.207 with SMTP id h15mr297042faa.5.1304004491535;
        Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:28:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-bw0-f48.google.com (mail-bw0-f48.google.com [209.85.214.48])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b4si325396fab.2.2011.04.28.08.28.11
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:28:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.48;
Received: by mail-bw0-f48.google.com with SMTP id 8so3844134bwz.21
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:28:11 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.204.151.202 with SMTP id d10mr845086bkw.168.1304004491252;
 Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:28:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.204.191.80 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:28:11 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimPWoQkob=v4DHVo-mc0hGDL5+gsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7e5bdd6d-4bb8-415e-b50f-6a0d3e5454b4@e8g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<BANLkTini_bFv6vgUN4UmnkDgj+8huZ-SNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim0vQPPAQKNuLe8V2acoJ9PybeJcw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrzOrDKjqtCONawZcnSHQ_3mOovw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=39pvwy213auV130_EE3p8fpLbpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=P1sMWNqTWxcwLtY3dhLUhuNWFxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimOE7j96acXCG0+R_RWstFyQbfMWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimKGz9eVP5nRHs3HvnFrX9imBXPnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikWHv1VvbVMa11rGLDY81QFOCowNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimGcfhFDZ=VXFJ8Z-KZ6A8c6vbOoQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimp7QGzXABtFn2J0+23VYdFswQXaw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinRYF7TgicT+d8Vcx7_a2KoFsWa9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik3zms_pdVxqoGjNXiOLDCR-uJBYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimGizJu6J_EYo3AdsAgdDvwJAmJ4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik=jswAXDP1+Z+ejFLHMDeGie9_GQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimYM9sEv1U1wZFBFkikQMtdq8a+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin3FC9kWqCwxXeZ7DzTyyyOnq76cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin1Ts4k_FSdyb6x5Y1CEFB-1wrTYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik0p3exWT=+RgX2rganf=h8iY4a-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinik4hT-U2_u4O_RWmXnYtakwSfEQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimLbrWgxSRPY9Tzo3W1i=BP3uiBRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvCjDd3Y5mT8nx-S=oit_Hkawk_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi==GiY_uJtnt3_NtjUNGGRJZjgp4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimPWoQkob=v4DHVo-mc0hGDL5+gsg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:28:11 -0600
Message-ID: <BANLkTinUqKSOBkK=PcsgE-ecpr31Byvy3g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Why is CAhA a tense/modal?
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.48 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cac947c96a804a1fc3449
Content-Length: 4481

--0015175cac947c96a804a1fc3449
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:24 AM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 4:45 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 2:28 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> It's easier to keep I and YOU than forever distinguish between I as
> >> speaker and YOU as listener.
> >
> >
> > Except that I /is/ /always/ the person speaking, and you /is/ /always/
> the
> > person listening.
> >
>
>   Well, no.  I refer you to CLL 17.14:
>
> > Using any vocative except ``mi'e'' (explained below) implicitly defines
> the meaning of the
> > pro-sumti ``do'', as the whole point of vocatives is to specify the
> listener, or at any rate
> > the desired listener --- even if the desired listener isn't listening! We
> will use the terms
> > ``speaker'' and ``listener'' for clarity, although in written Lojban the
> appropriate terms
> > would be ``writer'' and ``reader''.
>
>
>    So do doesn't have to be even listening.  And we also know that
> mi'e can assign a plural to "mi". (CLL 7.2)  Questions like what does
> "mi'e le gerku" mean (presumably "okay, I am speaking for the dog
> now") are left open.
>
>               --gejyspa


That reference agrees with me, gejyspa.

-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.


--0015175cac947c96a804a1fc3449
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:24 AM, Michael=
 Turniansky <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com">=
mturniansky@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x;">
<div class=3D"im">On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 4:45 PM, Jonathan Jones &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 2:28 PM, MorphemeAddict &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
lytlesw@gmail.com">lytlesw@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; It&#39;s easier to keep I and YOU than forever distinguish between=
 I as<br>
&gt;&gt; speaker and YOU as listener.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Except that I /is/ /always/ the person speaking, and you /is/ /always/=
 the<br>
&gt; person listening.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div> =A0Well, no. =A0I refer you to CLL 17.14:<br>
<br>
&gt; Using any vocative except ``mi&#39;e&#39;&#39; (explained below) impli=
citly defines the meaning of the<br>
&gt; pro-sumti ``do&#39;&#39;, as the whole point of vocatives is to specif=
y the listener, or at any rate<br>
&gt; the desired listener --- even if the desired listener isn&#39;t listen=
ing! We will use the terms<br>
&gt; ``speaker&#39;&#39; and ``listener&#39;&#39; for clarity, although in =
written Lojban the appropriate terms<br>
&gt; would be ``writer&#39;&#39; and ``reader&#39;&#39;.<br>
<br>
<br>
 =A0 =A0So do doesn&#39;t have to be even listening. =A0And we also know th=
at<br>
mi&#39;e can assign a plural to &quot;mi&quot;. (CLL 7.2) =A0Questions like=
 what does<br>
&quot;mi&#39;e le gerku&quot; mean (presumably &quot;okay, I am speaking fo=
r the dog<br>
now&quot;) are left open.<br>
<br>
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa</blockquote></div><br>That reference=
 agrees with me, gejyspa.<br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .ai=
onys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi pat=
fu do zo&#39;o<br>
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br><br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



--0015175cac947c96a804a1fc3449--