Another example: lu lo gerku cu citka cu se cusku mi. =C2=A0This is va= lid, the second {cu} says "ok, the next selbri is expected after we ha= ve hit a {li'u} so stick the {li'u} in and take the next selbri

But in {lo lo blabi cu gerku} it seems like it's no= t behaving the same way. =C2=A0It seems like it's not valid to read thi= s as "take the next selbri and make it a sumti: (take the next selbri = and make it a sumti: (blabi) <here comes a selbri> (gerku) )

It seems like the "selbri" that {lo} is conve= rting is not really a "true" selbri but something else.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:35 AM, .alyn.post. <alyn.po= st@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:

Ah! ok. =C2=A0Thank you Luke, let me try ag= ain:

The technical reason is that CU separates the preceding sumti from
the selbri that follows, and a nested LE is part of the sumti.

If a cu were permitted in the case described, I believe this would
be valid:

=C2=A0le le broda cu brode cu brodi

And would be identical to:

=C2=A0le le broda ku brode cu brodi

I suspect this is not permitted for the following reasons, though
I'm speculating:

=C2=A0* CU is designed as an aide to the listener in finding the selbri, =C2=A0 so permitting it in a nested LE opens the possibility of having
=C2=A0 multipe CU in a bridi, weakening the ability to find the selbri. =C2=A0* KU is the terminator to use when terminating a nested LE. =C2=A0Whi= le
=C2=A0 you could *also* unambigiously permit other terminators, this
=C2=A0 isn't the only scenario where this is true. =C2=A0If you permit= ted
=C2=A0 every terminator that wasn't unambiguous you'd still have a=
=C2=A0 parseable grammar, but one which would be more difficult to
=C2=A0 understand: there would be increased cognitive load in determining<= br> =C2=A0 what is being terminated, as you no longer have a direct
=C2=A0 correspondence between the opening and closing selma'o.

-Alan

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:15:34AM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0I think the question though is, if {cu} means "separ= ate selbri from
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0preceding sumti" then, why can't you do {le le n= inmu cu klama} where this
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0is interpreted as: (something that goes in x1 of: ( somet= hing that goes in
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0x1 of: (ninmu <cu so break out of this sumti and start= talking about a
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0selbri>) comes).
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ok, I don't know how to describe that better. Basical= ly, if {cu} says "ok,
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0we're done with this sumti, now do a selbri" but= that itself is happening
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0inside a LE, then why can't the following selbri be c= onverted by the outer
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0LE?
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:06 AM, .alyn.post.

> =C2=A0 =C2=A0<[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 07:49:21AM -0700, Ben Fopp= a wrote:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Lojban for Beginners says "...consider h= ow you would say le tamne pe
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> le ninmu klama 'the woman traveller's= cousin' with this kind of
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> nesting. You could flip it around as le le ni= nmu klama tamne =EF=BF=BD but
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> then, how can you tell where the 'possess= or' ends and where the
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> 'possessee' begins?"
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> I wonder why a construct like "le le nin= mu klama cu tamne" wouldn't
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> work, to separate the argument to the first &= quot;le" (which is "ninmu
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> klama"), from the argument to the second= "le" (which is "tamne"). Is
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> the purpose of "cu" not simply to s= eparate two selbri when they are
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> consecutive arguments, or when one is the arg= ument to another?
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You can use {ku} to terminate the inner {le}:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0le le ninmu klama ku tamne
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-alyn
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You received this message because you are subscrib= ed to the Google
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>
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> References
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Visible links
> =C2=A0 =C2=A01. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
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> =C2=A0 =C2=A03. mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > =C2=A0 =C2=A04. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-begin= ners?hl=3Den

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.i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi&#= 39;e du

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