Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QFUAR-0007a5-Tf; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:34:18 -0700 Received: by pvc22 with SMTP id 22sf2281380pvc.16 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:34:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject :message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; bh=7jr76xcMHfRY1NZ2A+Sf9s7DD2GE5CUsXtMtMVTJAl8=; b=26Clvr6F0VryP7zYA2MWEqLKXJsmbpJM8jiixvWVKPiPFrbz9Q/XvGT+kX10HDAuY8 aidEwA71M12NOOkuYNyc7lJkB3yMod4HJ4edNGoKKQcRqBa7KbvlhDj/bqRMY1c4tYK+ 8DEo/wUDTl1ELWbaDqAaQLxNOoAAiPwCBOPbE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; b=eV7ZOkH7czsMhTiq5uLzNIxgk2xc6vMXFtkfdoiMUqWucQvMJkCwIWThmLOWMATH1B 1AJnoD+rBuQquE8BkbXpOgFym56isqfbdSC1Yo+NMYSpESaV788r1J7yx28/a9iTKmF2 JCKMqVvLstXHWuluYOZBlORWn5ixNkyLje/ZM= Received: by 10.68.57.210 with SMTP id k18mr503106pbq.15.1304008040995; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:27:20 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.1.5 with SMTP id 5ls2504779pbi.1.gmail; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.32.8 with SMTP id e8mr631182pbi.64.1304008040405; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.32.8 with SMTP id e8mr631181pbi.64.1304008040395; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f51.google.com (mail-pz0-f51.google.com [209.85.210.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r3si944944pbq.5.2011.04.28.09.27.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.51 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.210.51; Received: by pzk26 with SMTP id 26so2103348pzk.38 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.57.166 with SMTP id j6mr3806301pbq.233.1304008039247; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.10.243.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y7sm1309080pbk.30.2011.04.28.09.27.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:27:14 -0600 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Possession with "le le ..." Message-ID: <20110428162714.GB31640@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com References: <1ef02bdb-cb9a-4474-a0d8-e2fd2f84e2ab@w24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <20110428153549.GB30212@alice.local> <201104281219.55719.phma@phma.optus.nu> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201104281219.55719.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.51 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Length: 1478 On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:19:53PM -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Thursday 28 April 2011 11:59:55 Luke Bergen wrote: > > But in {lo lo blabi cu gerku} it seems like it's not behaving the same way. > > It seems like it's not valid to read this as "take the next selbri and > > make it a sumti: (take the next selbri and make it a sumti: (blabi) > comes a selbri> (gerku) ) > > "lo blabi cu gerku" is a sentence in which "lo blabi" is a sumti of "gerku". > But the first "lo" expects a selbri, not a whole bridi, so "lo lo blabi cu > gerku" is ungrammatical. > > Pierre Perhaps the best informal rule then is that one reads Lojban left-to-right, and the preceding text has an expectation about what will come next. So while you can understand the probable intent of {lo lo blabi cu gerku}, the expectation of the left-most {lo} exceeds the expectation of the {cu}: you can't just read "pull up" on the cu and expect the rest of the structure of the bridi to make sense, you have to instead look for what you expect based on where you are in the setence. -Alan -- .i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.