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From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:46:04 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Possession with "le le ..."
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Ahhh, I see.  I was mixing up the concepts of "bridi" and "selbri".  A lone
selbri is also a bridi, but a bridi is not always a lone selbri.

And in answer to your question Alan, yes, there are other constructs where
{cu} "pulls you out".  For example, the example that I gave earlier:  {lu lo
gerku cu batci cu se cusku mi}.  The first {cu} says "here's the selbri of
this bridi (the one inside the quote)".  Then the second {cu} says "here's
the selbri of the next outer bridi (the one for which this quote is the
first sumti)".  This example has the second {cu} standing in place of
{li'u}.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:27 PM, .alyn.post. <
alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:19:53PM -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote:
> > On Thursday 28 April 2011 11:59:55 Luke Bergen wrote:
> > > But in {lo lo blabi cu gerku} it seems like it's not behaving the same
> way.
> > >  It seems like it's not valid to read this as "take the next selbri and
> > > make it a sumti: (take the next selbri and make it a sumti: (blabi)
> <here
> > > comes a selbri> (gerku) )
> >
> > "lo blabi cu gerku" is a sentence in which "lo blabi" is a sumti of
> "gerku".
> > But the first "lo" expects a selbri, not a whole bridi, so "lo lo blabi
> cu
> > gerku" is ungrammatical.
> >
> > Pierre
>
> Perhaps the best informal rule then is that one reads Lojban
> left-to-right, and the preceding text has an expectation about
> what will come next.
>
> So while you can understand the probable intent of {lo lo blabi
> cu gerku}, the expectation of the left-most {lo} exceeds the
> expectation of the {cu}: you can't just read "pull up" on the cu
> and expect the rest of the structure of the bridi to make sense,
> you have to instead look for what you expect based on where you
> are in the setence.
>
> -Alan
> --
> .i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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>
>

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Ahhh, I see. =A0I was mixing up the concepts of &quot;bridi&quot; and &quot=
;selbri&quot;. =A0A lone selbri is also a bridi, but a bridi is not always =
a lone selbri.<div><br></div><div>And in answer to your question Alan, yes,=
 there are other constructs where {cu} &quot;pulls you out&quot;. =A0For ex=
ample, the example that I gave earlier: =A0{lu lo gerku cu batci cu se cusk=
u mi}. =A0The first {cu} says &quot;here&#39;s the selbri of this bridi (th=
e one inside the quote)&quot;. =A0Then the second {cu} says &quot;here&#39;=
s the selbri of the next outer bridi (the one for which this quote is the f=
irst sumti)&quot;. =A0This example has the second {cu} standing in place of=
 {li&#39;u}.<br>

<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:27 PM, .alyn.post=
. <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org">a=
lyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex;">

<div class=3D"im">On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:19:53PM -0400, Pierre Abbat wr=
ote:<br>
&gt; On Thursday 28 April 2011 11:59:55 Luke Bergen wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; But in {lo lo blabi cu gerku} it seems like it&#39;s not behaving=
 the same way.<br>
&gt; &gt; =A0It seems like it&#39;s not valid to read this as &quot;take th=
e next selbri and<br>
&gt; &gt; make it a sumti: (take the next selbri and make it a sumti: (blab=
i) &lt;here<br>
&gt; &gt; comes a selbri&gt; (gerku) )<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;lo blabi cu gerku&quot; is a sentence in which &quot;lo blabi&qu=
ot; is a sumti of &quot;gerku&quot;.<br>
&gt; But the first &quot;lo&quot; expects a selbri, not a whole bridi, so &=
quot;lo lo blabi cu<br>
&gt; gerku&quot; is ungrammatical.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Pierre<br>
<br>
</div>Perhaps the best informal rule then is that one reads Lojban<br>
left-to-right, and the preceding text has an expectation about<br>
what will come next.<br>
<br>
So while you can understand the probable intent of {lo lo blabi<br>
cu gerku}, the expectation of the left-most {lo} exceeds the<br>
expectation of the {cu}: you can&#39;t just read &quot;pull up&quot; on the=
 cu<br>
and expect the rest of the structure of the bridi to make sense,<br>
you have to instead look for what you expect based on where you<br>
are in the setence.<br>
<br>
-Alan<br>
<font color=3D"#888888">--<br>
</font><div class=3D"im">.i ma&#39;a lo bradi ku penmi gi&#39;e du<br>
<br>
--<br>
</div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">You received this message because y=
ou are subscribed to the Google Groups &quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<=
br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
glegroups.com">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-begi=
nners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegr=
oups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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