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From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:21:07 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] ci lo gerku vs lo ci gerku
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Yeah, the gadri system was kind of broken and was changed in a proposal by
xorxes which we call "xorlo".  You can read about it here:
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/How+to+use+xorlo

<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/How+to+use+xorlo>Basically it really simplifies
how gadri work in lojban.  If I understand it myself correctly, {ci lo
gerku} is saying "three dogs".  Meanwhile "lo ci gerku" is saying something
like "all three of the dogs that we are talking about".  i.e.  If you have
"X lo Y gerku cu blabi" X is how many gerku are "white" and Y is the number
of dogs that we're talking about.  So if there are 5 dogs in a room that
we're looking at and 3 of them are white, you could say {ci lo mu gerku cu
blabi}.  And I believe that there are no default quantifiers for {lo} either
anymore.  So {lo gerku} can be used if you're talking about 3 dogs, 1 dog,
some dog (who knows which one), or even something that resembles a dog in
your mind.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Ben Foppa <eatingstaples@gmail.com> wrote:

> In Lojban For Beginners (http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/
> lojbanbrochure/lessons/less4articles.html), it is stated:
> "So ci lo gerku means 'three of those which really are dogs', or in
> plain words, 'three dogs'. lo ci gerku, however, means that we are
> talking about [one or more of] the only three dogs in the world, which
> is not something you'd really want to say."
>
> I understand how "ci lo gerku" means "three of those which are really
> dogs", but I don't understand how "lo ci gerku" means a subset of the
> only three dogs in existence; based on the definition of "lo" given
> there and on Wiktionary (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lo#Lojban), it
> seems that "lo ci gerku" would mean "That which really was three dogs".
>
> --
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> "Lojban Beginners" group.
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>
>

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Yeah, the gadri system was kind of broken and was changed in a proposal by =
xorxes which we call &quot;xorlo&quot;. =A0You can read about it here:=A0<a=
 href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/How+to+use+xorlo">http://www.lojban.org=
/tiki/How+to+use+xorlo</a><div>

<br></div><div><a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/How+to+use+xorlo"></a>=
Basically it really simplifies how gadri work in lojban. =A0If I understand=
 it myself correctly, {ci lo gerku} is saying &quot;three dogs&quot;. =A0Me=
anwhile &quot;lo ci gerku&quot; is saying something like &quot;all three of=
 the dogs that we are talking about&quot;. =A0i.e. =A0If you have &quot;X l=
o Y gerku cu blabi&quot; X is how many gerku are &quot;white&quot; and Y is=
 the number of dogs that we&#39;re talking about. =A0So if there are 5 dogs=
 in a room that we&#39;re looking at and 3 of them are white, you could say=
 {ci lo mu gerku cu blabi}. =A0And I believe that there are no default quan=
tifiers for {lo} either anymore. =A0So {lo gerku} can be used if you&#39;re=
 talking about 3 dogs, 1 dog, some dog (who knows which one), or even somet=
hing that resembles a dog in your mind.<br>

<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Ben Foppa =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eatingstaples@gmail.com">eatingstap=
les@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

In Lojban For Beginners (<a href=3D"http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/</a><br>
lojbanbrochure/lessons/less4articles.html), it is stated:<br>
&quot;So ci lo gerku means &#39;three of those which really are dogs&#39;, =
or in<br>
plain words, &#39;three dogs&#39;. lo ci gerku, however, means that we are<=
br>
talking about [one or more of] the only three dogs in the world, which<br>
is not something you&#39;d really want to say.&quot;<br>
<br>
I understand how &quot;ci lo gerku&quot; means &quot;three of those which a=
re really<br>
dogs&quot;, but I don&#39;t understand how &quot;lo ci gerku&quot; means a =
subset of the<br>
only three dogs in existence; based on the definition of &quot;lo&quot; giv=
en<br>
there and on Wiktionary (<a href=3D"http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lo#Lojban=
" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lo#Lojban</a>), it<br>
seems that &quot;lo ci gerku&quot; would mean &quot;That which really was t=
hree dogs&quot;.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
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<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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/>
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-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



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