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Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 17:40:34 -0600
From: ".alyn.post." <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: ci lo gerku vs lo ci gerku
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.i lo zu'o traji xarci pe mi'a spaji
.i mu'o mi'e .alyn.

On Mon, May 09, 2011 at 06:04:26PM -0400, MorphemeAddict wrote:
>    It's all trickery and deceit.
>    stevo
>=20
>    On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Luke Bergen <[1]lukeabergen@gmail.com>
>    wrote:
>=20
>      Exactly. That's why I'm saying that it COULD be understood to be sim=
ilar
>      to something in english like "big-foot does not exist. But if he doe=
s, I
>      imagine that he goes to sleep sometimes".
>=20
>      On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Michael Turniansky
>      <[2]mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>        Ah, but I teach them valuable life lessons -- like ascertaining
>        exactly what "all" involves in a given transaction before embrakin=
g on
>        a task. And they're all too smart to fall for it any more :-)
>        Your sentence doesn't assert anything about what would happen if t=
here
>        were >0 9-tailed dogs. It makes the claim that there ARE NO 9-tail=
ed
>        dogs, and that they like bones. (but again, you can say anything a=
bout
>        them, since there are 0 of them, and still be making a true
>        statement).
>        --gejyspa
>=20
>        On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Luke Bergen <[3]lukeabergen@gmail.=
com>
>        wrote:
>=20
>          haha, gejyspa, you're kind of a jerk ;)
>          I guess it could also be a way of translating stuff from english
>          like "if there WERE 9-tailed-dogs, they would probably like bone=
s"
>          -> {pe'i lo no sozrebge'u cu nelci la'a tu'a lo bongu}
>=20
>          On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Michael Turniansky
>          <[4]mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>            No, no, it's ALWAYS true. And I didn't say it was necessarily
>            useful, I just said it wsan't nonsense. After all, I use the
>            equivalent English with my kids all the time -- you know, like
>            "I'll give you all the dollars in my pocket if you clean your
>            room....Good job, I now give you the zero dollars that are in =
my
>            pocket."
>            --gejyspa
>=20
>            On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Luke Bergen
>            <[5]lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>              But what's the purpose. {lo no gerku cu crino cirla .ije lo =
no
>              gerku cu se rebla}. If you can say anything about {lo no ger=
ku}
>              (whether it is true or false) then what is the purpose of it=
?
>=20
>              On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Michael Turniansky
>              <[6]mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>                2011/5/7 Jorge Llamb=EF=BF=BDas <[7]jjllambias@gmail.com>
>=20
>                  On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Pierre Abbat
>                  <[8]phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
>                  >
>                  > What about "ro lo no prane ke xirdegmei namcu cu gumpi=
lji
>                  lo su'o so ficysi'u
>                  > namcu"? ("xirdegmei" is opposed to "landegmei".) It ha=
s
>                  been proved that they
>                  > must have at least nine different factors, that they a=
re
>                  not divisible by
>                  > 105, etc.; but no one has found a single one, and some
>                  mathematicians suspect
>                  > they don't exist.
>=20
>                  If you are saying that "ro lo no broda cu brode" could b=
e
>                  interpreted
>                  as "if there were any broda, they would brode, but in fa=
ct
>                  there
>                  aren't any broda", then I guess you could interpret it t=
hat
>                  way. From
>                  a logical point of view "lo no broda" is both a referrin=
g
>                  expression
>                  and not referring to anything, so we can only try things
>                  like mixing
>                  two different contexts to make sense of it.
>                  mu'o mi'e xorxes
>=20
>                I don't believe "lo no gerku cu blabi" to be self
>                contradictory/nonsense.
>                Consider a room containing three white dogs -- lo ci gerku=
 cu
>                blabi
>                I take one away -- lo re gerku cu blabi
>                I take another away -- lo pa gerku cu blabi
>                I take the last one away -- lo no gerku cu blabi
>                Of course, when I take the last one away, I can equally
>                truthfully say "lo no gerku cu xekri". But in all those ca=
ses
>                I can say "ro gerku [poi zvati lo kumfa ku'o] cu blabi". I=
t's
>                jsut a question of whether I am specifying their cardinali=
ty
>                (ci,re,pa,no) or not (ro).
>                --gejyspa
>=20
>                --
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n.
>=20
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> References
>=20
>    Visible links
>    1. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com
>    2. mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com
>    3. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com
>    4. mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com
>    5. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com
>    6. mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com
>    7. mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com
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--=20
.i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du

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