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Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 08:24:53 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Just to double check, about {da} and quantifiers From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2559 2011/5/31 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: >> >> =A0Except that you have to specify (or know by some external means) >> that there are no true values of da that are broda =A0in order to make >> "ro da poi broda" =3D "no da poi broda". > > Who said anything about making "ro da poi broda" =3D "no da poi broda"? Let me rephrase. When you said, " If there are no cat-dogs, it's [ "ro da poi ke'a gerku je mlatu cu broda"] true, since for every value of da it will be false that da gerku je mlatu.", that means that there are no cat-dogs. In a universe where "ro da poi gerku je mlatu" is a nomei, "no da poi gerku je mlatu" refers to the same thing (an empty set). But my major point was simply that all things that are cat-dogs are in fact a nomei. So for any broda, " ro da poi ke'a gerku je mlatu ku'o va'o lo du'u da nomei cu broda" is true. Which I contend is precisely what "[ro] lo no gerku je mlatu cu broda" means and is therefore always true. I know, I know. You all disagree that it's meaningful. But then you come around and assert what I consider to be the very same thing, just phrased differently. --gejyspa > What I said was that "ro da poi broda cu brode" can be expanded to "ro > da zo'u ganai da broda gi da brode". > > Similarly "su'o da poi broda cu brode" can be expanded to "su'o da > zo'u ge da broda gi da brode". > > And the negations of those two: > > me'i da poi broda cu brode =3D me'i da zo'u ganai da broda gi da brode > > no da poi broda cu brode =3D no da zo'u ge da broda gi da brode > > In fact all four are basically the the same expansion simply by taking > su'o da =3D naku no da =3D me'i da naku =3D naku ro da naku > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscrib= e@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an-beginners?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.