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From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {le} and {lo}
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 01:28:22 -0400
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On Monday 27 June 2011 11:33:19 Ian Johnson wrote:
> Previous reference is not relevant to {lo} or to {le}. {lo] is generic; it
> is simply one or more x1s of the selbri provided. In this sense it is
> somewhat like a/an. However, {le} is for one or more specific things that
> *the speaker* has in mind, that they are describing as being an x1 of the
> selbri (but needn't be x1s of the selbri). "The" is quite different from
> {le}; "the" is relative to *the listener*, and so we would typically say
> things like "A dog went across the street. The dog dug up a bone." These
> sentences would not probably be translated with {lo} followed by {le}; in
> the first sentence, you don't have a specific dog in mind, and then in the
> second sentence you are talking about the same dog, but it still isn't a
> specific one, and so you would use {lo} in both cases. On the other hand,
> since {le}'s "having in mind" is relative to *the speaker*, you could
> easily introduce a sumti with {le} if you had it in mind at the start of
> the conversation, even if the listener doesn't know the exact referent.

If you want to say whether you think the listener already knows the referent, 
you can use "bi'u". "bi'unai" is like "aforesaid": "lo gerku cu pagre lo 
klaji .i lo bi'unai gerku cu kakpa lo bongu".

If there is only one referent and everyone agrees on that referent, both "lo" 
and "le" are appropriate. I generally use "lo" in such phrases as "lo solri" 
and "lo fasygu'e". If the selbri can refer to people or a language or 
cultural objects, but the context indicates a language, "lo" is used: "mi 
tcidu lo xatra be bau lo fraso". If someone said "bau le fraso" I'd assume he 
had a particular dialect in mind.

"lo" is used to speak of species as a whole: "lo cionmau cu citka lo bambusa" 
means "the panda eats bamboo". "lo'e" can also be used here. Of course, if 
you have an individual panda in mind, you'd say "le cionmau".

Pierre
-- 
The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain.

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