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Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Using "nu"
From: ianek <janek37@gmail.com>
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Maybe... but I would then use sipsne to be exact. I don't see how
daydream can be lucid or not.

mu'o mi'e ianek

On Jun 28, 12:45=A0pm, Michael Turniansky <mturnian...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Senva is indeed the correct word here. =A0In "I have a dream" that's
> really a [se] pacna. =A0A se senva is something that is basically a
> story line in your head, whether true or false, typically not under
> your conscious control. =A0A xanri is something that exists typically
> only in the mind of someone, (despite the way it's written in gi'uste
> which was done to avoid the le/lo problem pre-xorlo), although it may
> be an ideal conception of a real thing, and can very easily be under
> conscious control.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 3:14 AM, ianek <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Is {senva} the correct word here? To me, dream/reverie means something
> > one would like to happen and ponders it, as in "I have a dream". The
> > sleeping kind of dream I'd translate as {sipxanri}.
> > The main problem here is that the gismu definitions are written in an
> > ambiguous language, but synonyms in them are meant to disambiguate.
> > You wouldn't call an animal {lo stela} if it's {lo pinpedi}. In my
> > rarbau "sleeping dream" and "daydream/reverie" are completely
> > different words.
> > By the way, I've had a half-lucid dream this night. I started to fly
> > and I knew that it's possible only in a dream, but I didn't care much.
> > It was a good flight, even if I was mildly concious that somewhere
> > else I lay on a bed.
>
> > mu'o mi'e ianek
>
> > On Jun 27, 8:43=A0am, Remo Dentato <rdent...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Ben Foppa <eatingstap...@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>
> >> > melbi fa lonu lo senva cu sanji le sevzi
>
> >> > Aiming for "Self-aware dreams are beautiful", or, more precisely:
> >> > "beautiful are dreams which are aware of the self".
>
> >> It seem to me: "the event of the dreamer being conscious of himself is
> >> beautiful". In other words, you deem beautiful the fact that a dreamer
> >> is (or can be) conscious of himself.
>
> >> If you meant, instead, that "lucid dreaming" is beautiful in itself, I
> >> would go with: {lo nu sanji senva cu melbi}.
>
> >> If are the "dreams" that are beautiful, then you won't need {nu} at
> >> all: {lo sanji selsne cu melbi}
>
> >> I think the tanru {sanji senva} ("x1 makes a conscious type of dream
> >> about x2") renders "lucid dream" quite precisely as in lucid dreams
> >> one is aware of the the fact that he is dreaming, not necessarily he
> >> is aware of his ego.
>
> >> I still have a =A0problem with {melbi} since it is meant for aesthetic
> >> judgment, I suspect that you meant "beautiful" in some other sense
> >> (maybe {pluka}?) for which there's not a direct translation in Lojban.
>
> >> Note that dreams can't be aware of anything and they do not have a
> >> "self". Only dreamers do.
>
> >> > 1. Is this correct? I'm a little confused as to how to turn "lo senv=
a
> >> > cu sanji le sevzi" into a sumti.
>
> >> It is grammatically correct but I don't think is what you meant. I'm
> >> not sure why you want to convert it into a sumti but the easiest way
> >> is probably to transform it in "the dreamer who is conscious of self"
> >> -> {lo senva poi sanji le sevzi}
>
> >> > 2. I'm thinking that not using "fa" (i.e. "lonu lo senva cu sanji le
> >> > sevzi cu melbi") wouldn't work, because it's sort of vague as to wha=
t
> >> > the "nu" encompasses. Is this correct?
>
> >> Lojban grammar is never ambiguous. in you case is:
> >> =A0{ << lonu lo senva cu sanji le sevzi >> cu melbi}
>
> >> {nu} (and all the other abstractions} take an entire bridi so you
> >> simply stop before the second {cu}.
>
> >> When you're in doubt, try to use jboski (or jbofihe) to check how the
> >> sentence parses. Use the terminator {kei} to define where the
> >> abstraction ends if the default rules give you something different
> >> from what you want.
>
> >> > 3. Is my use of "lo" twice correct? How would meanings change if I
> >> > used:
>
> >> {le} is specific in the sense that you're talking about a dream
> >> (and/or dreamer) you have in mind (and possibly identified by the
> >> context of what is being said).
> >> {lo} is more generic but almost always correct. Stay with {lo} as much
> >> as possible and you'll never be wrong :) (I still have problems
> >> following this rule myself).
>
> >> Enjoy your holiday trip to Lojbanistan :)
>
> >> mu'o mi'e remod.
>
> > --
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