Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QcP0A-0001LZ-39; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:42:26 -0700 Received: by pzk4 with SMTP id 4sf1986697pzk.16 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:42:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=/TsJT5dIX2ePpzM+F2eTy7szcBVPxZdedLMbC2fw+c8=; b=HGAiX7nhDogwQ0uJnPYA230oDwguZ6/cMC73KRNr7e3Q3O3/aCT0G8nOsjKUjTqGb9 0A3wLRy31KYY/VYokzKRxtH3OFzbzPwfsfi0c3nxC+eUr0et8E76c4d+ylN63f2Nt4YG S9HMxcB2X1ap/F/60HwkL4LV/PKdcnnEkyyZk= Received: by 10.68.65.113 with SMTP id w17mr493460pbs.53.1309470133214; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:42:13 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.16.199 with SMTP id i7ls1163870pbd.3.gmail; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.15.134 with SMTP id x6mr614694pbc.63.1309470132292; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.15.134 with SMTP id x6mr614693pbc.63.1309470132281; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f42.google.com (mail-pz0-f42.google.com [209.85.210.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f8si5403273pbc.0.2011.06.30.14.42.12 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.42; Received: by pzk37 with SMTP id 37so2562888pzk.15 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.199.5 with SMTP id w5mr1173039wff.202.1309470132137; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:42:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.180.6 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:41:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1665dd93-53b2-4442-8b6d-ab80aabdcbda@b21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <9454fde3-7042-4c60-82d9-776f51b07b5c@t38g2000prj.googlegroups.com> <8ecaf8d7-810f-41e7-b4cc-9208b696f6ce@g16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com> From: Stela Selckiku Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 17:41:42 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: {le} and {lo} To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1291 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:04 AM, Ian Johnson wrote: > Erm...{le broda} is not {zo'e noi ke'a broda}. It's {zo'e noi mi skicu ke'a > do lo ka ce'u broda}. Technically the formal definition has nothing to do > with "having in mind", which sorta confuses me still. Is there some > historical undercurrent here that I don't know about? I'm not sure if that definition has been formally accepted, but it does make sense to me, and it does say that you have to have the referent in mind. To "skicu" something is to hold it in mind while attempting to describe it to an audience. Each time you "skicu" it, you think of some attribute it has, and then convey that attribute to the audience: "It's red" or "it's thiiiiiiiiis big". It doesn't make sense to "skicu" unless you have a particular referent in mind, something you can think about and consider various properties of. mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.