Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCOib25n_BhCFjsPxBBoEEYM1Ag@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1QmGBb-0004fV-Dc; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:18:58 -0700
Received: by fxd2 with SMTP id 2sf894831fxd.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:18:48 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references
         :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=MGLmZSa43IeNyquXcP/jneILW2G2zdJ2lMoDNbNQHAw=;
        b=B4fq6gYDRK5OtFoQd55Gidb3oGS0fiKBHM+YG6aWtjPhOTcMyDA5t5o6tmNJ4T1M44
         CIbJLkhB/xxtI4rFWieJy4BjY5NgKz8Mtf6FnLJT+GgMj7Y6ePdtygyDCg33OBBmIaHc
         PXmZ9YJal43cmBfkJOFKPz5T82cIxIKGgx3+w=
Received: by 10.223.17.155 with SMTP id s27mr226903faa.40.1311819525675;
        Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:18:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.204.154.210 with SMTP id p18ls921482bkw.3.gmail; Wed, 27 Jul
 2011 19:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.205.24.11 with SMTP id rc11mr52349bkb.4.1311819524471;
        Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.205.24.11 with SMTP id rc11mr52348bkb.4.1311819524451;
        Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-fx0-f49.google.com (mail-fx0-f49.google.com [209.85.161.49])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q27si208789fab.2.2011.07.27.19.18.44
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.49;
Received: by fxd20 with SMTP id 20so920849fxd.22
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.204.145.19 with SMTP id b19mr145087bkv.192.1311819524194; Wed,
 27 Jul 2011 19:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.204.70.196 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAEimHHBOzZz-NCxmgh7AOnVPGOcp0KNyfPNP3hVUkqvMbHvUtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALm==BVjGB-DXYehfxViAvmNxadpRBRtOhU05V=MgiY_DncnXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJHgu=8p=__UYhw54Y7eGP+TYw6QkK0Yx+K_R4eCW8mL7vngTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEimHHAhCD0YRLmVYbJt6Sw6hqx1TqwU8CfM60zJ1c4ue9ogWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJHgu=9MGCMMVjDWSaLV-erCv2Xz5uVjDVgoOqPiJfpfNR9sLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEimHHBOzZz-NCxmgh7AOnVPGOcp0KNyfPNP3hVUkqvMbHvUtw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:18:44 -0400
Message-ID: <CALm==BVqW5YAK6W_mBtcKKEPUuop+dGXnZs3yT1WEUM+kRA7xg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Coining a lujvo: "evidence"
From: ".arpis." <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.49 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015173fe820bfc21a04a917c8e0
Content-Length: 6376

--0015173fe820bfc21a04a917c8e0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

{pe'i lo'ai krici sa'ai jinvi le'ai dai}

The primary difference between {krici} and {jinvi} is that the former lacks
a place for reason for belief/opinion.

In fact, I think {velji'i} is close to "something that causes someone to
opine/believe something (to be true)".

I, personally, am a fan {au sai} of {facydatci}

Data that's false isn't data, per se.

On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 9:02 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh... now that I read the jbovlaski entry for stidi I am completely in
> agreement.  For some reason I sometimes think of lo selstidi as being a
> suggested action and sometimes as a fact that x1 suggests to be true.
> Probably malgli as you say.
>
> So do we have a word that means "xyxipa rinka lo nu ko'a krici lo du'u
> xyxire no'u fatci cu jetnu"?
> On Jul 27, 2011 8:56 PM, "Stela Selckiku" <selckiku@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think suggestion is a very important concept to the definition of
> >> "evidence".
> >
> > Yes, "suggestion" is important, but not {stidi}. A stidi is someone
> > who's suggesting a course of action to an audience.
> >
> > mu'o mi'e la stela selckiku
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
> >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>



-- 
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.


--0015173fe820bfc21a04a917c8e0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

{pe&#39;i lo&#39;ai krici sa&#39;ai jinvi le&#39;ai dai}<br><br>The primary=
 difference between {krici} and {jinvi} is that the former lacks a place fo=
r reason for belief/opinion.<br><br>In fact, I think {velji&#39;i} is close=
 to &quot;something that causes someone to opine/believe something (to be t=
rue)&quot;.<br>
<br>I, personally, am a fan {au sai} of {facydatci}<br><br>Data that&#39;s =
false isn&#39;t data, per se.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul=
 27, 2011 at 9:02 PM, Luke Bergen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
ukeabergen@gmail.com">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><p>Oh... now that I read the jbovlaski entr=
y for stidi I am completely in agreement.=A0 For some reason I sometimes th=
ink of lo selstidi as being a suggested action and sometimes as a fact that=
 x1 suggests to be true.=A0 Probably malgli as you say.</p>


<p>So do we have a word that means &quot;xyxipa rinka lo nu ko&#39;a krici =
lo du&#39;u xyxire no&#39;u fatci cu jetnu&quot;?</p><div><div></div><div c=
lass=3D"h5">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jul 27, 2011 8:56 PM, &quot;Stela Selckiku&qu=
ot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:selckiku@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">selckiku@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution">&gt; On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at=
 1:31 PM, Luke Bergen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; I think suggestion is a very important concept to the =
definition of<br>&gt;&gt; &quot;evidence&quot;.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Yes, &quot=
;suggestion&quot; is important, but not {stidi}.  A stidi is someone<br>

&gt; who&#39;s suggesting a course of action to an audience.<br>&gt; <br>&g=
t; mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la stela selckiku<br>&gt; <br>&gt; -- <br>&gt; You rec=
eived this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &quot;Lo=
jban Beginners&quot; group.<br>

&gt; To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginner=
s@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>=
.<br>&gt; To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:l=
ojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-be=
ginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>

&gt; For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.=
com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.=
com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>&gt; <br></div>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
glegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-begi=
nners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners+un=
subscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>

For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .arpis.<br><br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



--0015173fe820bfc21a04a917c8e0--