Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QnCQt-00016r-3A; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 09:30:39 -0700 Received: by ywt32 with SMTP id 32sf1659466ywt.16 for ; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 09:30:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=7vWiHzjtffxBaHtrnCneULorZlBWMr+oZqsOKdmNb1o=; b=RookPoPDpye+VqnKKIcQDp4F+yybqZSGjAEEezHnbR5K3simCDqG0TTfhhZdRKaska U1Y9rL9Xq9PVEcP8ZWBEAH/6dPbRVeqf3+DpozdezORazSk4T72o9iqMXwueVPuaHnwx IdDtpwhko4qLq12V+A0vnjb9zFY+bSJapBsUI= Received: by 10.236.190.200 with SMTP id e48mr256280yhn.47.1312043426056; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 09:30:26 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.155.26 with SMTP id h26ls9307880ano.0.gmail; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 09:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.143.73 with SMTP id k49mr767375yhj.159.1312043425324; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 09:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.111.18 with SMTP id j18msybc; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 04:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.176.2 with SMTP id a2mr585589yhm.58.1312025840943; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 04:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.176.2 with SMTP id a2mr585588yhm.58.1312025840933; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 04:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u3si141675ybd.1.2011.07.30.04.37.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 30 Jul 2011 04:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.54; Received: by mail-qw0-f54.google.com with SMTP id 9so2884620qwc.41 for ; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 04:37:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.7.212 with SMTP id e20mr1740474qce.192.1312025840708; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 04:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.28.130 with HTTP; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 04:37:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 12:37:20 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Coining a lujvo: "evidence" From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: paskios@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=paskios@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1166 On 28 July 2011 03:18, .arpis. wrote: > I, personally, am a fan {au sai} of {facydatci} > > Data that's false isn't data, per se. You can have false data as working data. That's how fraud, delusion, etc. are possible. Consider also this case: A 'color-blind' person goi koha and a non-'color-blind' person goi kohe are looking at an apple and an orange. Kohe says the two fruits have different colors. Koha says they have the same color. Both koha and kohe are truthfully reporting the sense data they each perceive of the fruits. Koha's and kohe's datni represent relative facts. But fatci1 is defined to be 'in the absolute'. Whose sense data should be exclusively referred to as {facydatni}? In other words, whose datni would you consider as being *not* of reality? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.