Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QuF9m-0000rp-Cg; Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:50:04 -0700 Received: by vxh2 with SMTP id 2sf3276192vxh.16 for ; Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:49:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=aiQB/lHlKZWgz5clG0L2/60azV2FyNFjzagWQeCiDTs=; b=tqet7AUKsJwD/sLg5MpXG/9c5b/8dNh1Kwj8rOfvulAdaE/yUvHSj1ZpPbUzldTJ5Z UKdED4+EtDAxqwZiFY5cjyhMwzVwxJVb+LGoUHel/z1F2E5V6oGLib/ACEfnen7KW41e xTIhZB03+fJGIm8zwaKD5kIWtVzs0/3QqGoj8= Received: by 10.220.195.131 with SMTP id ec3mr454140vcb.54.1313722193410; Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:49:53 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.221.0.18 with SMTP id nk18ls5949600vcb.4.gmail; Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.74.104 with SMTP id s8mr1460711vdv.32.1313722192983; Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.74.104 with SMTP id s8mr1460710vdv.32.1313722192974; Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id h2si7883259vdv.0.2011.08.18.19.49.51; Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.122; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=SOlsIBN44tkg4MqIq+y2aLZdhoA3kHpmiRsLue6rfnM= c=1 sm=0 a=6ti_TD8eFm8A:10 a=1VZ801ZL3iQA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=MNAxdMTjzQrWth4Yo2AA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:50497] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 4D/23-15242-E4FCD4E4; Fri, 19 Aug 2011 02:49:51 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1493D22928 for ; Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:49:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Question about appropriateness of articles Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:49:47 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201108182249.48390.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Length: 1309 On Thursday 18 August 2011 22:36:37 Jed wrote: > Is it okay to use "lo," "le," and their derivative forms as articles > for: > > 1. Words created from roots, e.g. "ponkin" (anime) > 2. Words whose context is apparent from the truncated gismu at their > beginnings, e.g. "cidjrdonat." (doughnut) > > Or do I just have to use "la" and its derivative forms? I believe I've > seen it written both ways, although I've never learned about these > types of proper nouns in depth, and I don't know whether it's really > correct to do so. Those words are cmevla, so you have to use "la",=20 e.g. "la .ponkin.". "lo .ponkin." is ungrammatical. You can make a selbri b= y=20 preceding it with "me": "tu me la .kobus. la .kob." (a kind of African=20 bovid). This is called a type-2 fu'ivla. You can also, of course, say "lo= =20 ponskina". Pierre --=20 La sal en el mar es m=E1s que en la sangre. Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.