Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QxApD-0006VQ-9B; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:48:58 -0700 Received: by fxd2 with SMTP id 2sf5057008fxd.16 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:48:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=rbDCLq941oapXFeHAfgQOCTyGQPhFfeqJ38GH6xf6s8=; b=o/5nyPgP+j7arLbwa0WcFzoYr4LJ2tal4lo8xU4bIEmSMoNxPRp4xFFURTR+jSJQov SEqVZyKgQNpBoAnJF2nqVynO5ShL6r7GKu3r89+begeM8V3i+MAYcPdo1LAiuPWekgSC //sv+HKF+F4T//U5ot2qiI/qvd9lxaoFyLOP0= Received: by 10.223.101.20 with SMTP id a20mr389370fao.33.1314420525540; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:48:45 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.154.210 with SMTP id p18ls2128304bkw.3.gmail; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:48:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.150.197 with SMTP id z5mr340567bkv.3.1314420524138; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:48:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.150.197 with SMTP id z5mr340566bkv.3.1314420524105; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:48:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f46.google.com (mail-fx0-f46.google.com [209.85.161.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r28si1058058fag.3.2011.08.26.21.48.44 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:48:44 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.46; Received: by fxh19 with SMTP id 19so3800523fxh.5 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:48:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.88.214 with SMTP id b22mr1080587fam.5.1314420523500; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.41.68 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:48:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <41f3563c-23b4-4c7b-96fc-8b5fcd11033a@z1g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 22:48:43 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban "r" From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd3f57e63862404ab7560b9 Content-Length: 9448 --000e0cd3f57e63862404ab7560b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't like the trilling. It sounds wrong as an ending sound, and it makes it much harder to hear the important bit - the difference between your "e" and your "ei". Personally, I only use a trilled r when {r} is an internal sound, as in cilre, not when it occurs at the end. In any case, your "r" is my "er", and your "er" and "eir" are my "eir". On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > Ok, all this "e" as in "let" stuff is killing me so here: > http://cinch.fm/lbergen/275225 > > Admittedly, I got a little sloppy on the last word (cirlrfu) but I > attribute that to the fact that my tongue is still getting used to trilling > and back-to-back syllables with "r" in it are like an obstacle course for my > tongue (ta'o still expressing relief at having sorpreka to save me from > having to say sorprekarce .u'i) > > Also, listening to myself again I think I screwed up on the emphasis... oh > well. > > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:00 PM, ranoritc wrote: > >> >> I definitely pronounce the first "e" in "better" differently to the >> second "e", so I'm not sure this works for me at all. Took me some >> time to stop pronouncing "er" in lojban words as "yr", as this is how >> I normally pronounce it in English. I agree with Luke that it should >> rhyme with air (or mostly rhyme), at least in my dialect. >> >> On Aug 27, 3:29 am, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> > The Lojban sound-cluster that sounds like the English "air" is {eir}, >> not >> > {er}. .ebu is pronounced as the "e" in "b*e*tt*e*r", ""w*e*t", "p*e*st", >> > etc. The pronunciation example the CLL uses is >> > "l*e*t", >> > "What is Lojban?" lists the pronunciation in IPA as "e [E] ([e]): a >> front >> > mid vowel" > >, >> > "Lojban for Beginners" uses the example >> > "g*e*t"< >> http://www.tlg.uci.edu/%7Eopoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less1.html#.. >> .>, >> > and the English pronunciation guide uses the examples "b*e*t, >> > l*e*ns" >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --000e0cd3f57e63862404ab7560b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't like the trilling. It sounds wrong as an ending sound, and it m= akes it much harder to hear the important bit - the difference between your= "e" and your "ei".

Personally, I only use a tri= lled r when {r} is an internal sound, as in cilre, not when it occurs at th= e end.

In any case, your "r" is my "er", and your "er= " and "eir" are my "eir".

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Luke Bergen &l= t;lukeabergen@gm= ail.com> wrote:
Ok, all this "e" as in "let&q= uot; stuff is killing me so here:

Admittedly, I got a little sloppy on the last word (cir= lrfu) but I attribute that to the fact that my tongue is still getting used= to trilling and back-to-back syllables with "r" in it are like a= n=A0obstacle=A0course for my tongue (ta'o still expressing relief at ha= ving sorpreka to save me from having to say sorprekarce .u'i)

Also, listening to myself again I think I screwed up on= the emphasis... oh well.


On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:00 PM, ranoritc <ranorith@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

I definitely pronounce the first "e" in "better" differ= ently to the
second "e", so I'm not sure this works for me at all. Took me= some
time to stop pronouncing "er" in lojban words as "yr", = as this is how
I normally pronounce it in English. I agree with Luke that it should
rhyme with air (or mostly rhyme), at least in my dialect.

On Aug 27, 3:29=A0am, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Lojban sound-cluster that sounds like the English "air" = is {eir}, not
> {er}. .ebu is pronounced as the "e" in "b*e*= tt*e*r", ""w*e*t", "p*e*st",
> etc. The pronunciation example the CLL uses is
> "What is Lojban?" lists the pronunciation in IPA = as "e [E] ([e]): a front
> "Lojban for Beginners" uses the example
> "g*e*t"<http://www.tlg.u= ci.edu/%7Eopoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less1.html#...>,
> and the English pronunciation guide uses the examples "b*e*t= ,
> l*e*ns"<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Pronunciation+= guide+in+English>
>

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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.


--
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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
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