On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gm= ail.com> wrote:

ugh. =A0The way that I pronounced "r" in that audio had absolutel= y ZERO "e" in it (at least to my ears). =A0Arbitrarily dropping v= owels in word=A0pronunciation=A0just feels so friggin' unlojbanic that = I'm a little offput right now.

Ok, if my "er" are both your "eir" and y= our "er" does that mean that you can't hear a difference? =A0= If that's the case then I'm going to just keep pronouncing "er= " like I have been and should I need to say "eir" I'll d= o it the same way that I do it in the audio. =A0It's up to you to devel= op the ear to hear the difference. =A0If enough people say "nope, I ca= n't hear the difference either" I'll conceded and just start d= ropping vowels when doing otherwise confuses people.

No. Your "er" and your "eir"= ; are both my "eir". I can hear a difference, but I wouldn't = think either of them were "er". Your "er" is not my &qu= ot;er", you "r" is.
=A0

On Sat, Aug 27= , 2011 at 12:48 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote= :

I don't like the trilling. It sounds wrong as an ending sound, and it m= akes it much harder to hear the important bit - the difference between your= "e" and your "ei".

Personally, I only use a tri= lled r when {r} is an internal sound, as in cilre, not when it occurs at th= e end.

In any case, your "r" is my "er", and your "er= " and "eir" are my "eir".

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Luke Bergen= <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok, all thi= s "e" as in "let" stuff is killing me so here:
http://cinch.f= m/lbergen/275225

Admittedly, I got a little sloppy on the last word (cir= lrfu) but I attribute that to the fact that my tongue is still getting used= to trilling and back-to-back syllables with "r" in it are like a= n=A0obstacle=A0course for my tongue (ta'o still expressing relief at ha= ving sorpreka to save me from having to say sorprekarce .u'i)

Also, listening to myself again I think I screwed up on= the emphasis... oh well.

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:00 PM, ranoritc <ranorith@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

I definitely pronounce the first "e" in "better" differ= ently to the
second "e", so I'm not sure this works for me at all. Took me= some
time to stop pronouncing "er" in lojban words as "yr", = as this is how
I normally pronounce it in English. I agree with Luke that it should
rhyme with air (or mostly rhyme), at least in my dialect.

On Aug 27, 3:29=A0am, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Lojban sound-cluster that sounds like the English "air" = is {eir}, not

> {er}. .ebu is pronounced as the "e" in "b*e*= tt*e*r", ""w*e*t", "p*e*st",

> etc. The pronunciation example the CLL uses is

> "l*e*t"<http://dag.github.com/cll/2/2/>,

> "What is Lojban?" lists the pronunciation in IPA = as "e [E] ([e]): a front

> mid vowel" <http://lojban.org/public= ations/level0/brochure/phonapp.html>,

> "Lojban for Beginners" uses the example

> "g*e*t"<http://www.tlg.u= ci.edu/%7Eopoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less1.html#...>,

> and the English pronunciation guide uses the examples "b*e*t= ,
> l*e*ns"<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Pronunciation+= guide+in+English>
>

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mu'o mi'e .aionys.
.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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