Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qxizu-0005if-7m; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:18:31 -0700 Received: by gyc15 with SMTP id 15sf8576388gyc.16 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:18:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=l43T8YeGh/GTLxIw/uXyrg79syHoLEzCBg5h9X2NIAY=; b=X0aanMON0bDDsm3q8bgtInDGelU3lRMeiuf7/AnKOyGzJksLuNBm0ewhR5iOp21Mj6 ++GVhO6dg21kAHJ4zukaUZNkoHsvbGHrbtHho35ZP+Z5/qHPRAKn1G16uzs6XfKrt4I/ 8YVg6ES7ka/t/LIsYJ6ifXldSk9UeE6qiCyIE= Received: by 10.101.73.19 with SMTP id a19mr595303anl.5.1314551883383; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:18:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.197.39 with SMTP id z39ls9808964anp.2.gmail; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.184.65 with SMTP id r41mr15326628yhm.6.1314551881745; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.184.65 with SMTP id r41mr15326626yhm.6.1314551881729; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f174.google.com (mail-gy0-f174.google.com [209.85.160.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j18si662353ybc.0.2011.08.28.10.18.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.174; Received: by gya6 with SMTP id 6so4767277gya.5 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:18:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.72.233 with SMTP id t69mr19399096yhd.55.1314551880509; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.109.163 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.109.163 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:18:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <41f3563c-23b4-4c7b-96fc-8b5fcd11033a@z1g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 13:18:00 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban "r" From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30050e70e0671f04ab93f552 Content-Length: 5687 --20cf30050e70e0671f04ab93f552 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah I was showing what I understood syllabic r to sound like which is why it sounds so different. If the question is "which sounds more like e followed by r to me" then I will vote for my "er" over the "er" of "runner" every time. On Aug 28, 2011 10:26 AM, "tijlan" wrote: > On 28 August 2011 05:52, Luke Bergen wrote: >> ugh. The way that I pronounced "r" in that audio had absolutely ZERO "e= " in >> it (at least to my ears). Arbitrarily dropping vowels in >> word pronunciation just feels so friggin' unlojbanic that I'm a little >> offput right now. > > I take your audio as follows: > > er [=C9=9B(=CB=90)r] > eir [e=C9=AAr] > r [=C9=9A=CB=90] > lrfu [l=C9=99rfu] > cirlrfu [=CA=83=C9=AArl=C9=99rfu] > cirlerfu [=CA=83=C9=AArl=C9=9Brfu] > > Samples for each IPA symbol: http://www.yorku.ca/earmstro/ipa/ > (Note that, for consonants, he is adding an actual vowel to > illustrate different positional realizations, such that "r" --> [ra:] > & [ara:] & [a:r] ) > > I don't hear /e/ -- [e] or [=C9=9B] -- in your "r", but it sounds more li= ke > a vowel than a consonant. And it's certainly not the [r] that you are > using for the other words. > > To be more hair-splitting as pertains to the "er/eir" issue: I hear, > if I try, a slight lengthening of the /e/ in your "er", becoming > closer to the length of "eir", but the vowels themselves seem still > distinguishable in the way you pronounce them. > > > mu'o > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --20cf30050e70e0671f04ab93f552 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yeah I was showing what I understood syllabic r to sound like which is w= hy it sounds so different.=C2=A0

If the question is "which sounds more like e followed by r to me&qu= ot; then I will vote for my "er" over the "er" of "= ;runner" every time.

On Aug 28, 2011 10:26 AM, "tijlan" <= ;jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:<= br type=3D"attribution">> On 28 August 2011 05:52, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote: >> ugh. =C2=A0The way that I pronounced "r" in that audio h= ad absolutely ZERO "e" in
>> it (at least to my ears). = =C2=A0Arbitrarily dropping vowels in
>> word=C2=A0pronunciation=C2= =A0just feels so friggin' unlojbanic that I'm a little
>> offput right now.
>
> I take your audio as follows:>
> er [=C9=9B(=CB=90)r]
> eir [e=C9=AAr]
> r= [=C9=9A=CB=90]
> lrfu [l=C9=99rfu]
> cirlrfu [=CA=83=C9=AA= rl=C9=99rfu]
> cirlerfu [=CA=83=C9=AArl=C9=9Brfu]
>
> Samples for each IPA symbol: http://www.yorku.ca/earmstro/ipa/
> (Note that,= for consonants, he is adding an actual vowel to
> illustrate differe= nt positional realizations, such that "r" --> [ra:]
> & [ara:] & [a:r] )
>
> I don't hear /e/ -- [e= ] or [=C9=9B] -- in your "r", but it sounds more like
> a v= owel than a consonant. And it's certainly not the [r] that you are
&= gt; using for the other words.
>
> To be more hair-splitting as pertains to the "er/eir&quo= t; issue: I hear,
> if I try, a slight lengthening of the /e/ in your= "er", becoming
> closer to the length of "eir", = but the vowels themselves seem still
> distinguishable in the way you pronounce them.
>
>
&g= t; mu'o
>
> --
> You received this message because = you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.=
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsub= scribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com= .
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-b= eginners?hl=3Den.
>

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