On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 2:39 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gma= il.com> wrote:

It sounds like the main concern = is that it's hard to pronounce "er" without accidentally sayi= ng "eir" or "yr" for some folks.

On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 2:14 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw= @gmail.com> wrote:

What's so hard about pronouncing all Lojban 'e's the same?= Or as close as surrounding sounds allow?

=C2=A0

stevo

On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 1:31 PM, cybrown <cybrown@gmail.com> wrote:

I've been having this same p= roblem myself, in working through Lojban
for Beginners, since gerku is a= common gismu used in that series. I
find myself often saying geirku, but not quite the english "gay-r-
= koo." It makes me wonder if I should be saying "gerku" more = like
English "gir-koo" even though that's clearly a differ= ent "e" sound
than the one I use in "le" (which I would spell as English "= leh").
Should my gerku and lerfu sound like English "ir" = sounds? If so then I
don't know how I would tell them apart from gyr= ku and lyrfu, although
my understanding is that those can't be real words anyway, right?

On Aug 28, 1:18=C2=A0pm, Luke Bergen <lukeaber...@gmail.com> wrote:
&= gt; Yeah I was showing what I understood syllabic r to sound like which is = why
> it sounds so different.
>
> If the question is "which= sounds more like e followed by r to me" then I
> will vote for = my "er" over the "er" of "runner" every time.=

> On Aug 28, 2011 10:26 AM, "tijlan" <jbotij...@gmail.com> wrote= :

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2= 8 August 2011 05:52, Luke Bergen <lukeaber...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> = ugh. =C2=A0The way that I pronounced "r" in that audio had absolu= tely ZERO "e"
> in
> >> it (at least to my ears). =C2=A0Arbitrarily droppi= ng vowels in
> >> word pronunciation just feels so friggin'= unlojbanic that I'm a little
> >> offput right now.
>= ;
> > I take your audio as follows:
>
> > er [=C9=9B(=CB= =90)r]
> > eir [e=C9=AAr]
> > r [=C9=9A=CB=90]
> &g= t; lrfu [l=C9=99rfu]
> > cirlrfu [=CA=83=C9=AArl=C9=99rfu]
>= > cirlerfu [=CA=83=C9=AArl=C9=9Brfu]
>
> > Samples for e= ach IPA symbol:http://www.yorku.ca/earmstro/ipa/
> > (Note that, for consonants, he is adding an actual vowel to
&g= t; > illustrate different positional realizations, such that "r&quo= t; --> [ra:]
> > & [ara:] & [a:r] )
>
> >= ; I don't hear /e/ -- [e] or [=C9=9B] -- in your "r", but it = sounds more like
> > a vowel than a consonant. And it's certainly not the [r] that= you are
> > using for the other words.
>
> > To be= more hair-splitting as pertains to the "er/eir" issue: I hear, > > if I try, a slight lengthening of the /e/ in your "er",= becoming
> > closer to the length of "eir", but the vow= els themselves seem still
> > distinguishable in the way you prono= unce them.
>
> > mu'o
>
> > --
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
><= br>
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