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From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 21:41:11 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban "r"
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The only rule as far as I know about pronunciation of vowels is that they
must not sound like other vowels.

your "er" sounds more like "yr" to me.  Maybe I'm just not understanding how
you're pronouncing it.  Can you put up some audio of you pronouncing lojban
"er", "eir", "ar", and "yr"?

On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> I pronounce {er} like in "bett*er*". I pronounce {eir} like in "*air*".
>>> The two do not sound alike, and I don't have Luke's problem with thinking it
>>> sounds too "Englishy" to pronounce {er} like that.
>>>
>>>>
>> The only issue is that it's not how lojban is pronounced.
>>
>
> I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you. Lojban is very permissive with
> pronunciation. The only person who's ever even suggested that you can't use
> the sound in "bett*e*r" for .ebu that I am aware of is you.
>
>
>> I imagine that some of our ponjbope'o had some trouble learning
>> how/when/where to use "l" vs "r" but at the end of they day they will/should
>> because that's how lojban is pronounced.  If you can't pronounce "er" as "e"
>> followed by "r" then practice.
>>
>>
>>>  And no, its not just "some people" who have a problem pronouncing "er"
>>>
>>>>  and "eir" differently, its everyone from what I can see. I've yet to
>>>
>>>>  see how anyone "could" pronounce them differently. If anyone would
>>> like to prove me wrong I'm all ears.
>>>
>>
>> http://cinch.fm/lbergen/276687
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
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>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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The only rule as far as I know about=A0pronunciation=A0of vowels is that th=
ey must not sound like other vowels.<div><br></div><div>your &quot;er&quot;=
 sounds more like &quot;yr&quot; to me. =A0Maybe I&#39;m just not understan=
ding how you&#39;re pronouncing it. =A0Can you put up some audio of you pro=
nouncing lojban &quot;er&quot;, &quot;eir&quot;, &quot;ar&quot;, and &quot;=
yr&quot;?</div>

<div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:36 PM, J=
onathan Jones <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com">ey=
eonus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 a=
t 7:29 PM, Luke Bergen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I pronou=
nce {er} like in &quot;bett<u>er</u>&quot;. I pronounce {eir} like in &quot=
;<u>air</u>&quot;. The two do not sound alike, and I don&#39;t have Luke&#3=
9;s problem with thinking it sounds too &quot;Englishy&quot; to pronounce {=
er} like that.<div>




<div></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><=
/blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>The on=
ly issue is that it&#39;s not how lojban is pronounced. </div>


</div></blockquote></div><div><br>I&#39;m sorry, I have to disagree with yo=
u. Lojban is very permissive with pronunciation. The only person who&#39;s =
ever even suggested that you can&#39;t use the sound in &quot;bett<u>e</u>r=
&quot; for .ebu that I am aware of is you.<br>


=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"=
im"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>I imagine that some of our ponjbope&#39=
;o had some trouble learning how/when/where to use &quot;l&quot; vs &quot;r=
&quot; but at the end of they day they will/should because that&#39;s how l=
ojban is pronounced. =A0If you can&#39;t pronounce &quot;er&quot; as &quot;=
e&quot; followed by &quot;r&quot; then practice.</div>


<div>

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color=
:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">

</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px=
;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 20=
4);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">




<blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>And no, its not just &qu=
ot;some people&quot; who have a problem pronouncing &quot;er&quot;<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">




<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color=
:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">

<blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>and &quot;eir&quot; diff=
erently, its everyone from what I can see. I&#39;ve yet to<br><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;=
padding-left:1ex">




<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color=
:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">

<blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>see how anyone &quot;cou=
ld&quot; pronounce them differently. If anyone would<br>
like to prove me wrong I&#39;m all ears.</div></div></div></blockquote><div=
><br></div></div><div><a href=3D"http://cinch.fm/lbergen/276687" target=3D"=
_blank">http://cinch.fm/lbergen/276687</a>=A0</div></div>

<p></p></div>

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roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>=
<br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;uca=
i ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come t=
o the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>


<br>

<p></p>

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roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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/>
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