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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban "r"
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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No, but I can put up me saying words that have those sounds in them, which
is a more natural pronunciation than the sounds in isolation.

http://cinch.fm/eyeonus/276717

On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

> The only rule as far as I know about pronunciation of vowels is that they
> must not sound like other vowels.
>
> your "er" sounds more like "yr" to me.  Maybe I'm just not understanding
> how you're pronouncing it.  Can you put up some audio of you pronouncing
> lojban "er", "eir", "ar", and "yr"?
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I pronounce {er} like in "bett*er*". I pronounce {eir} like in "*air*".
>>>> The two do not sound alike, and I don't have Luke's problem with thinking it
>>>> sounds too "Englishy" to pronounce {er} like that.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>> The only issue is that it's not how lojban is pronounced.
>>>
>>
>> I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you. Lojban is very permissive with
>> pronunciation. The only person who's ever even suggested that you can't use
>> the sound in "bett*e*r" for .ebu that I am aware of is you.
>>
>>
>>> I imagine that some of our ponjbope'o had some trouble learning
>>> how/when/where to use "l" vs "r" but at the end of they day they will/should
>>> because that's how lojban is pronounced.  If you can't pronounce "er" as "e"
>>> followed by "r" then practice.
>>>
>>>
>>>>  And no, its not just "some people" who have a problem pronouncing "er"
>>>>
>>>>>  and "eir" differently, its everyone from what I can see. I've yet to
>>>>
>>>>>  see how anyone "could" pronounce them differently. If anyone would
>>>> like to prove me wrong I'm all ears.
>>>>
>>>
>>> http://cinch.fm/lbergen/276687
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>>
>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
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>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>>
>
>  --
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>



-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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No, but I can put up me saying words that have those sounds in them, which =
is a more natural pronunciation than the sounds in isolation.<br><br><a hre=
f=3D"http://cinch.fm/eyeonus/276717">http://cinch.fm/eyeonus/276717</a><br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Luke Bergen=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com">lukeabergen=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
The only rule as far as I know about=A0pronunciation=A0of vowels is that th=
ey must not sound like other vowels.<div><br></div><div>your &quot;er&quot;=
 sounds more like &quot;yr&quot; to me. =A0Maybe I&#39;m just not understan=
ding how you&#39;re pronouncing it. =A0Can you put up some audio of you pro=
nouncing lojban &quot;er&quot;, &quot;eir&quot;, &quot;ar&quot;, and &quot;=
yr&quot;?</div>
<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">

<div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:36 PM, J=
onathan Jones <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">


<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Lu=
ke Bergen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">



<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I pronou=
nce {er} like in &quot;bett<u>er</u>&quot;. I pronounce {eir} like in &quot=
;<u>air</u>&quot;. The two do not sound alike, and I don&#39;t have Luke&#3=
9;s problem with thinking it sounds too &quot;Englishy&quot; to pronounce {=
er} like that.<div>





<div></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><=
/blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>The on=
ly issue is that it&#39;s not how lojban is pronounced. </div>



</div></blockquote></div><div><br>I&#39;m sorry, I have to disagree with yo=
u. Lojban is very permissive with pronunciation. The only person who&#39;s =
ever even suggested that you can&#39;t use the sound in &quot;bett<u>e</u>r=
&quot; for .ebu that I am aware of is you.<br>



=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div>I imagine that some of our ponjbope&#39;o had some t=
rouble learning how/when/where to use &quot;l&quot; vs &quot;r&quot; but at=
 the end of they day they will/should because that&#39;s how lojban is pron=
ounced. =A0If you can&#39;t pronounce &quot;er&quot; as &quot;e&quot; follo=
wed by &quot;r&quot; then practice.</div>



<div>

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">






<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color=
:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">

</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px=
;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 20=
4);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">





<blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>And no, its not just &qu=
ot;some people&quot; who have a problem pronouncing &quot;er&quot;<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">





<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color=
:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">

<blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>and &quot;eir&quot; diff=
erently, its everyone from what I can see. I&#39;ve yet to<br><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;=
padding-left:1ex">





<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color=
:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">

<blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>see how anyone &quot;cou=
ld&quot; pronounce them differently. If anyone would<br>
like to prove me wrong I&#39;m all ears.</div></div></div></blockquote><div=
><br></div></div><div><a href=3D"http://cinch.fm/lbergen/276687" target=3D"=
_blank">http://cinch.fm/lbergen/276687</a>=A0</div></div>

<p></p></div>

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</div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><div></div><div><br><br clear=3D"=
all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo=
 pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Sid=
e! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>



<br>

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>
<br>

<p></p>

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-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



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