Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R68xJ-00006e-Vm; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:38:25 -0700 Received: by qyk2 with SMTP id 2sf1204425qyk.16 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:38:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=qNp3zLKZS6GhABzyPHtqbmCnmEYF9u7BZHdOwNbTkVw=; b=M6KSYIcSAOyBPQkUSRAdNEsJKUsZSj8jlP4S3fLFf2iV1YD5zW0woIEysWZl9GX/5D W6U3/8VGmZGkWl/Qt19zYR7ZZlR/GNn79M2HscqNz7QD+WZtBiTfbB/sW0PZnN1dgHFG ORoc3aMv5dpkuaonh8NgzePJOAZP30vsodkco= Received: by 10.224.183.6 with SMTP id ce6mr2318qab.50.1316558283352; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:38:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.199.7 with SMTP id eq7ls1876745qab.3.gmail; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.187.203 with SMTP id cx11mr46729qab.1.1316558282516; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.187.203 with SMTP id cx11mr46727qab.1.1316558282451; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f172.google.com (mail-qy0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e7si1667096qcu.3.2011.09.20.15.38.02 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.172; Received: by mail-qy0-f172.google.com with SMTP id 32so3948267qyk.3 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:38:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.0.193 with SMTP id 1mr32233qac.80.1316558282033; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.29.8 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:38:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <11340793.641.1316264331285.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcd38> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 18:38:02 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] One popular Russian song in Lojban From: Alex Rozenshteyn To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3074d518ba0a3904ad671c95 Content-Length: 18246 --20cf3074d518ba0a3904ad671c95 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable More commentary: I'd say {voksa tirna} as opposed to {ti'e voksa}, because the point of {ti'e} is to express how you know something, not that you actually hear it. I'd use {ra'i} rather than {to'o}, partially because I don't know what {to'o} does as a tag, and partially because {to'o} emphasizes literal movement, while {ra'i} emphasizes beginning/origination. Fortunately, neither of these mess with the rhythm. Also, just to make sure I'm not crazy here, the original Russian word which you translate as {balvi} doesn't mean "future" explicitly, right? Continuing reading. (The one thing I hate about lojban is the abundance of words where transposing two letters is a major mistake and the morphological plausibility of many others. I'm looking at you right now, zo jbini and zo jibni. I initially misread the second line.) You are aware that the {fe} in the second line is superfluous and you did i= t just for rhythm, I assume. Also, the {noi} clause of the second line attaches to {lo [...] balvi}, which I assume is a mistake. Perhaps the second line could be {gi'e vo'e jbini lo cerdirgo ku} (vo'e if you use my substitution; vo'a if you stick to your first line)? In the third line, the thing after {ja'e} must be a sumti; and there are more mistakes in line four. And I can't figure out how to fix it without changing your meaning or breaking the rhythm. Thinking in public here: {.i lo voksa zo'u mi lo maftri pluta / manci du'i lo nu verba cukmuvzdi}. I'll think more later. On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn wro= te: > And after hearing the first 5 seconds of the song, I recognize it. > > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 4:43 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn w= rote: > >> Interpreting as addressed to me, In which case I'm not sure what you're >> asking; I think I meant to use both words as I did. >> >> >> 2011/9/20 Luke Bergen >> >>> .u'i djisku zo tu'a ji zo ti'e >>> On Sep 20, 2011 2:48 PM, ".arpis." wrote: >>> > .i mi ji'a se rukybau .i ku'i mi zvati lo merko .i mi ba'e ba tinju'i >>> lo >>> > selsa'a .i ku'i caku mi simlu co srera tu'a zo ti'e >>> > >>> > =F1 =D4=CF=D6=C5 =C7=CF=D7=CF=D2=C0 =D0=CF =F2=D5=D3=D3=CB=C9, =CE=CF= =D1 =D6=C9=D7=D5 =D7 =E1=CD=C5=D2=C9=CB=C5. =F1 =D0=CF=D3=CC=D5=DB=C1=C0 = =D0=C5=D3=D8=CE=C0, =CE=CF >>> =D0=CF=CB=C1 =CD=CE=C5 >>> > =CB=C1=D6=C5=D4=D3=CF =CA=D4=CF =D3=CC=CF=D7=CF "tu'a" =CE=C5 =D0=D2= =C1=D7=C5=CC=D8=CE=CF=C5. >>> > >>> > I also speak Russian, but I'm in America. I am going to listen to the >>> song, >>> > but I thing "tu'a" is the wrong word. >>> > >>> > PS: Apologies for my bad Russian spelling and grammar; I never learne= d >>> to >>> > write. >>> > PPS: Apologies for my bad lojban expressivity; I'm still learning to >>> write. >>> > >>> > On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 8:58 AM, gleki >>> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hi from Russia. I'm very interested in Lojban language. Together wit= h >>> my >>> >> pen friends >>> >> I decided to translate one text into Lojban. It's a popular Russian >>> song >>> >> called "Wonderful Distant Future". >>> >> Here is the accompaniment< >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DAEQ69ytcSGw&feature=3Drelated>. >>> >> And here is the song >>> itself in >>> >>> >> Russian. >>> >> >>> >> I also translated the song into English so that you can check my >>> >> translation. English translation doesn't preserve the rhythm. Lojban= ic >>> does. >>> >> >>> >> I hope you'll point out my mistakes so that i can make corrections a= nd >>> and >>> >> then upload the song onto Youtube. >>> >> >>> >> I can hear a voice from the Beautiful distant Future >>> >> A morning voice in a silvery dew. >>> >> I can hear the voice and a luring road >>> >> Is driving me mad like a merry-go-round in childhood >>> >> *Refrain: >>> >> **Oh the Beautiful distant Future ! >>> >> Don't be cruel to me ! >>> >> Don't be cruel to me ! >>> >> Don't be cruel ! >>> >> From a clear source >>> >> to the Beautiful distant Future, >>> >> to the Beautiful distant Future >>> >> I'm starting my way. >>> >> * >>> >> I can hear the voice from the Beautiful distant Future >>> >> It's calling me into wonderful lands. >>> >> I can hear the voice and it's strictly asking me >>> >> What I did today for tomorrow >>> >> >>> >> I swear that I'll become more pure and kind >>> >> And will never leave my friend in trouble >>> >> I can hear the voice and I'm running in a hurry to the calling >>> >> Via a road where there are no trails >>> >> >>> >> ti'e voksa to'o lozu melbi balvi >>> >> ku noi jbini fe lo cerni dirgo ku >>> >> .i da voksa ja'e makfa trina pluta >>> >> du'i lonu vofli ku macri'a mi >>> >> >>> >> .i doi zu melbi balvi >>> >> ko ba fe mi na jursa >>> >> .i pe'u doi zu balvi >>> >> ko jimpe fi mi >>> >> .i fi lo klina krasi >>> >> fe lozu melbi balvi >>> >> .e lonu manci balvi >>> >> cu klama ca fa mi >>> >> >>> >> ti'e voksa to'o lozu melbi balvi >>> >> ku noi klacpe lo tcemanci tutre ku >>> >> .i da voksa zo'u da ca junri cpedu >>> >> lu do gunka fi bavlamdei pu fe ma >>> >> >>> >> .i mi nupre lonu mi ba vrude zmadu >>> >> gi'e sidju lo mi pendo ku roi ku >>> >> .i da voksa ja'e sutra bajra fa mi >>> >> fe lo pluta be fo li no farna ku >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups >>> >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/jJzl8s-kw-sJ. >>> >> To post to this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> >> For more options, visit this group at >>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.co= m >>> . >>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> > For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alex R >> >> > > > -- > Alex R > > --=20 Alex R --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --20cf3074d518ba0a3904ad671c95 Content-Type: text/html; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable More commentary:

I'd say {voksa tirna} as opposed to {ti'e v= oksa}, because the point of {ti'e} is to express how you know something= , not that you actually hear it.

I'd use {ra'i} rather than = {to'o}, partially because I don't know what {to'o} does as a ta= g, and partially because {to'o} emphasizes literal movement, while {ra&= #39;i} emphasizes beginning/origination.

Fortunately, neither of these mess with the rhythm.

Also, just t= o make sure I'm not crazy here, the original Russian word which you tra= nslate as {balvi} doesn't mean "future" explicitly, right?
Continuing reading.

(The one thing I hate about lojban is the ab= undance of words where transposing two letters is a major mistake and the m= orphological plausibility of many others.=9A I'm looking at you right n= ow, zo jbini and zo jibni. I initially misread the second line.)

You are aware that the {fe} in the second line is superfluous and you d= id it just for rhythm, I assume.
Also, the {noi} clause of the second li= ne attaches to {lo [...] balvi}, which I assume is a mistake.

Perhap= s the second line could be {gi'e vo'e jbini lo cerdirgo ku} (vo'= ;e if you use my substitution; vo'a if you stick to your first line)?
In the third line, the thing after {ja'e} must be a sumti; and ther= e are more mistakes in line four. And I can't figure out how to fix it = without changing your meaning or breaking the rhythm.

Thinking in pu= blic here: {.i lo voksa zo'u mi lo maftri pluta / manci du'i lo nu = verba cukmuvzdi}.

I'll think more later.

On Tue, Se= p 20, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.com> wrote:
And after hearing the first 5 seconds of the song, I recognize it.


On Tue, Sep 20,= 2011 at 4:43 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.com>= wrote:
Interpreting as addressed to me, In which ca= se I'm not sure what you're asking; I think I meant to use both wor= ds as I did.


2011/9/20 Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>

.u'i djisku zo tu'a ji zo ti'= e

On Sep 20, 2011 2:48 PM, ".arpis."= ; <rp= glover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
> .i mi= ji'a se rukybau .i ku'i mi zvati lo merko .i mi ba'e ba tinju&= #39;i lo
> selsa'a .i ku'i caku mi simlu co srera tu'a zo ti'e>
> =F1 =D4=CF=D6=C5 =C7=CF=D7=CF=D2=C0 =D0=CF =F2=D5=D3=D3=CB= =C9, =CE=CF =D1 =D6=C9=D7=D5 =D7 =E1=CD=C5=D2=C9=CB=C5. =F1 =D0=CF=D3=CC=D5= =DB=C1=C0 =D0=C5=D3=D8=CE=C0, =CE=CF =D0=CF=CB=C1 =CD=CE=C5
> =CB=C1= =D6=C5=D4=D3=CF =CA=D4=CF =D3=CC=CF=D7=CF "tu'a" =CE=C5 =D0= =D2=C1=D7=C5=CC=D8=CE=CF=C5.
>
> I also speak Russian, but I'm in America. I am going to l= isten to the song,
> but I thing "tu'a" is the wrong wo= rd.
>
> PS: Apologies for my bad Russian spelling and grammar;= I never learned to
> write.
> PPS: Apologies for my bad lojban expressivity; I'm = still learning to write.
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 8:58 AM, = gleki <g= leki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi from Russia. I'm very interested in Lojban languag= e. Together with my
>> pen friends
>> I decided to transl= ate one text into Lojban. It's a popular Russian song
>> calle= d "Wonderful Distant Future".
>> Here is the accompaniment<http://www.yout= ube.com/watch?v=3DAEQ69ytcSGw&feature=3Drelated>.
>> An= d here <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DXueqDSQQcvA>is the song= itself in

>> Russian.
>>
>> I also translated the song into E= nglish so that you can check my
>> translation. English translatio= n doesn't preserve the rhythm. Lojbanic does.
>>
>> I= hope you'll point out my mistakes so that i can make corrections and a= nd
>> then upload the song onto Youtube.
>>
>> I can h= ear a voice from the Beautiful distant Future
>> A morning voice i= n a silvery dew.
>> I can hear the voice and a luring road
>> Is driving me mad like a merry-go-round in childhood
>> *= Refrain:
>> **Oh the Beautiful distant Future !
>> Don= 9;t be cruel to me !
>> Don't be cruel to me !
>> Don= 't be cruel !
>> From a clear source
>> to the Beautiful distant Future,>> to the Beautiful distant Future
>> I'm starting my = way.
>> *
>> I can hear the voice from the Beautiful dist= ant Future
>> It's calling me into wonderful lands.
>> I can hear t= he voice and it's strictly asking me
>> What I did today for t= omorrow
>>
>> I swear that I'll become more pure and = kind
>> And will never leave my friend in trouble
>> I can hear t= he voice and I'm running in a hurry to the calling
>> Via a ro= ad where there are no trails
>>
>> ti'e voksa to'= o lozu melbi balvi
>> ku noi jbini fe lo cerni dirgo ku
>> .i da voksa ja'e= makfa trina pluta
>> du'i lonu vofli ku macri'a mi
>= ;>
>> .i doi zu melbi balvi
>> ko ba fe mi na jursa >> .i pe'u doi zu balvi
>> ko jimpe fi mi
>> .i= fi lo klina krasi
>> fe lozu melbi balvi
>> .e lonu manc= i balvi
>> cu klama ca fa mi
>>
>> ti'e voks= a to'o lozu melbi balvi
>> ku noi klacpe lo tcemanci tutre ku
>> .i da voksa zo'= u da ca junri cpedu
>> lu do gunka fi bavlamdei pu fe ma
>&g= t;
>> .i mi nupre lonu mi ba vrude zmadu
>> gi'e sidj= u lo mi pendo ku roi ku
>> .i da voksa ja'e sutra bajra fa mi
>> fe lo pluta be = fo li no farna ku
>>
>> --
>> You received this= message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "= Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/jJzl8s-kw-sJ.<= br> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com= .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more = options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .
>>
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o m= i'e .arpis.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to th= e Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this= group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne= rs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this g= roup at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den<= /a>.
>



--
=9A=9A =9A =9A =9A =9AAlex R=




--
=9A=9A =9A =9A =9A =9AAlex R




--
=9A=9A =9A =9A =9A =9AAlex R

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
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