Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]:56796) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1R7WuU-0006Rg-EF; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:25:11 -0700 Received: by fxg17 with SMTP id 17sf5609133fxg.16 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:25:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=+UHx827U0Se4U43WoN9n9KrhSvtPDUEInFsbAI1KEZk=; b=ITfbweY6fatrnaUfBWQX2nxcdGlGDjnAubiaO0/PsCyFXnInf69tYppTIEcoXawhDT xm4IXBnh1nmbY/Cgpv+5osuixmCctEAGRdzUo8/zeSG9Lv1ZABOwARtIbLG9GlI1vui3 MQKb6OcgqR/Yi+vvaPYh92/4TZfXPoyE/oeWU= Received: by 10.223.39.22 with SMTP id d22mr102973fae.44.1316888688778; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:24:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.2.69 with SMTP id 5ls1045917bki.1.gmail; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.8.89 with SMTP id g25mr1055659bkg.3.1316888686817; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.8.89 with SMTP id g25mr1055658bkg.3.1316888686790; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f47.google.com (mail-fx0-f47.google.com [209.85.161.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a4si2278612fad.3.2011.09.24.11.24.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.47; Received: by mail-fx0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 1so5049844fxi.20 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:24:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.4.133 with SMTP id 5mr7491141far.81.1316888678394; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.38.9 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:24:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <32763177.1014.1316882634625.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbr29> References: <11340793.641.1316264331285.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcd38> <32763177.1014.1316882634625.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbr29> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:24:38 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: One popular Russian song in Lojban From: Alex Rozenshteyn To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0ce03ca4e26b5e04adb4095b X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 10645 --000e0ce03ca4e26b5e04adb4095b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 12:43 PM, gleki wrote: > mi ckire ro do lo nu sidju be mi .ui - any mistakes ? > (Thanks to all of you for helping me !) > > REFRAIN > What about this version of the refrain ? > .i fe lo klina krasi > ku fi lo melbi balvi > ku mi fi lo darbalvi > ku co'a klama vi > > "fi" two times. Is it ok ? > Yes. Although it's usually discouraged, I think it works very well here (it means that both things fit in the same place of {klama} but leaves their relationship with each other vague) > "mi co'a klama vi" - "I'm starting going somewhere here". Is it ok ? > Because there is nothing after the {vi}, it [more or less] takes {zo'e} as its target, and ends up modifying the it modifies the main selbri to mean that the "going" is occurring near something (unspecified/obvious). > > > SECOND VERSE > I meant tutra of course. So that the voice is calling me into paradise > LANDS. That's why I used territories - tutra. Is it wrong ? > Should I use reisku instead of cpedu ? > Then here is my suggestion > That makes sense now that you explain it. To me, though, it seems that {tutra} emphasizes the control or possession of the location. Try {stuzi} perhaps? > > "The voice is asking 'What have you done for the future ?'" > .i lo voksa ku noi junri reisku lu do > fi lo balvi zmadu ku pu gunka ma > > As the next sentence starts with .i then li'u can be omitted, right ? > No, because you can have multiple sentences in a quotation. > > Or I have another version. > > "The voice is asking what I've done for the future" > .i lo voksa ku noi junri reisku lo nu > mi pu gunka ma lo balvi zmadu ku > This is still not a bridi; everything after {noi} becomes part of the description of {lo voksa}, like "the voice which asks me" as opposed to "the voice asks me". Also, I think that the second place of {reisku} needs to be {lo du'u ...}, and that {zukte} is more what you want than {gunka}. > THIRD VERSE > If pa'o is incorrect then re'o should be okay. If klama itself denotes > motion then mo'i is superfluos, isn't it ? > I don't think so, but I'm not sure. > > Anyway I'd like to know how to say "a path with no direction spots" > "lo ke no farna barna ke'e pluta ku" ? > Can I use "bo" instead of "ke ... ke'e" here ? > > {no} doesn't work like that. "a path with no direction spots" is {lo pluta be se cau lo farna barna} or {lo farna barna claxu pluta} or {lo farba'a claxu pluta} or {lo pluta be se cau lo farba'a}. > My suggestion for now is > > .i da voksa .ije sutra klama fa mi > fo lo ke no barna ke'e pluta ku > > But I'd prefer sumtcita instead of place tags that are difficult to > memorize. > I'd prefer more natlang-like but valid ways that are alternative to x1 - > x5... > I've found that messing with {fa} etc only gets difficult when the selbri is late in the bridi. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/M-q09LUMO8IJ. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- Alex R -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --000e0ce03ca4e26b5e04adb4095b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 12:43 PM, gleki = <gleki.i= s.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
"= mi co'a klama vi" - "I'm starting going somewhere here&qu= ot;. Is it ok ?
Because there is nothing after the {vi}, it [more or less= ] takes {zo'e} as its target, and ends up modifying the it modifies the= main selbri to mean that the "going" is occurring near something= (unspecified/obvious).


SECOND VERSE
I meant tutra of course. So = that the voice is calling me into paradise LANDS. That's why I used ter= ritories - tutra. Is it wrong ?
Should I use reisku instead of cpedu ?
Then here is my sugge= stion
That makes sense now that you explain it. To m= e, though, it seems that {tutra} emphasizes the control or possession of th= e location. Try {stuzi} perhaps?

"The voice is asking 'What have you done for the future ?= '"
.i lo voksa ku noi junri reisku lu do
fi lo balvi zmadu ku p= u gunka ma

As the next sentence starts with .i the= n li'u can be omitted, right ?
No, because you c= an have multiple sentences in a quotation.

Or I have another version.

"The voic= e is asking what I've done for the future"
.i lo voksa ku noi junri reisku lo nu
mi pu gunka ma lo balv= i zmadu ku

This is still not a bridi; everything= after {noi} becomes part of the description of {lo voksa}, like "the = voice which asks me" as opposed to "the voice asks me".

Also, I think that the second place of {reisku} needs to be {lo du'= u ...}, and that {zukte} is more what you want than {gunka}.

<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border= -left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">

THIRD VERSE
If pa'o is incorrect then re&= #39;o should be okay. If klama itself denotes motion then mo'i is super= fluos, isn't it ?

I don't think so, but = I'm not sure.

Anyway I'd like to know how to say "a path with no direct= ion spots"
"lo ke no farna barna ke'e pluta ku" ?
Can I u= se "bo" instead of "ke ... ke'e" here ?
<= br>
{no} doesn't work like that. "a path wi= th no direction spots" is {lo pluta be se cau lo farna barna} or {lo f= arna barna claxu pluta} or {lo farba'a claxu pluta} or {lo pluta be se = cau lo farba'a}.
=A0
My suggestion for now is

.i da voksa .ije = sutra klama fa mi
fo lo ke no barna ke'e pluta ku

But I'= ;d prefer sumtcita instead of place tags that are difficult to memorize.
I'd prefer more natlang-like but valid ways that are alternativ= e to x1 - x5...

I've found that messing with {fa} etc only gets d= ifficult when the selbri is late in the bridi.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/M-q09LUMO8IJ.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
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