Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]:53923) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RFFrM-0004hI-OO; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 18:49:58 -0700 Received: by vcbfo14 with SMTP id fo14sf1166748vcb.16 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 18:49:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=4AmZhTudMonclE+euGAOi3+Pl1vpdOEMbdi9GBBm2b8=; b=664SAueMlwF5mMI6pI6D2LjS6Gcc/HT2wWUQBlNdZMqlcA3/zQAjLygV5L1vFZA5Ln tl+l8K6w+CL+wvJXw4zGR/gjve1qGI9Jsa0uhrqALD3gf0B3/Ng6/d+yuHGMumu3ONyn hiZQcp5oGYRIgYxlSAVnCgMDpzKAhIeRr7BTY= Received: by 10.220.108.193 with SMTP id g1mr1230146vcp.27.1318729773936; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 18:49:33 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.203.133 with SMTP id fi5ls13997vcb.2.canary; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 18:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.88.164 with SMTP id bh4mr10535148vdb.8.1318729773142; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 18:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.88.164 with SMTP id bh4mr10535147vdb.8.1318729773134; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 18:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com. [75.180.132.121]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id i11si4899942vdh.2.2011.10.15.18.49.32; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 18:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.121 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.121; X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=TqhkdUrh c=1 sm=0 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=6ti_TD8eFm8A:10 a=LCivoncv3d4A:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=Q9fys5e9bTEA:10 a=59Lrz2S-411fMg-_lkUA:9 a=PUjeQqilurYA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:48572] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 6C/5D-15901-B283A9E4; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 01:49:32 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC82718B48 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 21:49:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] How to say "face down" or "facing" Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 21:49:23 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201110152149.25317.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.121 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 1326 On Saturday 15 October 2011 20:00:14 .arpis. wrote: > An example sentence is, "I lay down face down on the bed." (as opposed to > "I lay down face up on the bed.") > > {mi pinvre lo ckana fa'a ri} seems to be an incorrect translation, since > {fa'a} refers to the direction of the event, not the orientation of the > person. > > Would {mi noi farna lo ckana ku pinvre ri} be better? That means "I, who am a direction of the bed, lie horizontally on it.". I think you've found a hole in the vocabulary. I don't remember seeing anything meaning "x1 is oriented in orientation x2", either in the gismu or in the spatial tenses. "farna" says what the direction of x2 from x3 is, but not how either of them is oriented. "carna" says that x1 rotates about axis x2, but not what it points at when it's finished. Nitpick: "I lay down" means "mi punji lo ranpi'u". You mean "I lie down". Pierre -- The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.