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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] How to say "face down" or "facing"
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Since men _do_ have {tatyji'o}, I'm willing to assert that men have {tatru}.

However, it sounds metaphorical to use any body part to refer to what
{crane} already does.

Perhaps {pinvre lo ckana mi noi fi ri fe ke'a crani}?

On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:26 AM, H. Felton <lojban707@fagricipni.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 2011-10-15 at 21:49 -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote:
> > On Saturday 15 October 2011 20:00:14 .arpis. wrote:
> > > An example sentence is, "I lay down face down on the bed." (as opposed
> to
> > > "I lay down face up on the bed.")
> > >
> > > {mi pinvre lo ckana fa'a ri} seems to be an incorrect translation,
> since
> > > {fa'a} refers to the direction of the event, not the orientation of the
> > > person.
> > >
> > > Would {mi noi farna lo ckana ku pinvre ri} be better?
> >
> > That means "I, who am a direction of the bed, lie horizontally on it.". I
> > think you've found a hole in the vocabulary. I don't remember seeing
> anything
> > meaning "x1 is oriented in orientation x2", either in the gismu or in the
> > spatial tenses. "farna" says what the direction of x2 from x3 is, but not
> how
> > either of them is oriented. "carna" says that x1 rotates about axis x2,
> but
> > not what it points at when it's finished.
>
> I'm not going to pretend that I know enough grammar to attempt
> a translation; but if "farna" is what it is just described as,
> and you really want *face*-down, describing the direction from
> "to'e flira stedu" to "flira" might work; though, for the
> orientation of the, *body* which is what you appear to really
> mean to describe, I'd be more inclined to use "tatru" as a
> reference point; I know that one could question whether men have
> a "tatru" at all (though, they do have what could be described
> as vestigial mammary *glands*), but even still one could be
> taken, in a tanru at least, as meaning the direction of the
> torso on which other humans "tatru" normally are if the
> particular human does not have "tatru"; eg, male, too young, had
> a mastectomy, etc.
>
>
>
> --
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> "Lojban Beginners" group.
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>
>


-- 
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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Since men _do_ have {tatyji&#39;o}, I&#39;m willing to assert that men have=
 {tatru}.<br><br>However, it sounds metaphorical to use any body part to re=
fer to what {crane} already does.<br><br>Perhaps {pinvre lo ckana mi noi fi=
 ri fe ke&#39;a crani}?<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:26 AM, H. Felton <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lojban707@fagricipni.com">lojban707@=
fagricipni.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class=3D"im">On Sat, 2011-10-15 at 21:49 -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote:<br=
>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; On Saturday 15 October 2011 20:00:14 .arpis. w=
rote:<br>
&gt; &gt; An example sentence is, &quot;I lay down face down on the bed.&qu=
ot; (as opposed to<br>
&gt; &gt; &quot;I lay down face up on the bed.&quot;)<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; {mi pinvre lo ckana fa&#39;a ri} seems to be an incorrect transla=
tion, since<br>
&gt; &gt; {fa&#39;a} refers to the direction of the event, not the orientat=
ion of the<br>
&gt; &gt; person.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Would {mi noi farna lo ckana ku pinvre ri} be better?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; That means &quot;I, who am a direction of the bed, lie horizontally on=
 it.&quot;. I<br>
&gt; think you&#39;ve found a hole in the vocabulary. I don&#39;t remember =
seeing anything<br>
&gt; meaning &quot;x1 is oriented in orientation x2&quot;, either in the gi=
smu or in the<br>
&gt; spatial tenses. &quot;farna&quot; says what the direction of x2 from x=
3 is, but not how<br>
&gt; either of them is oriented. &quot;carna&quot; says that x1 rotates abo=
ut axis x2, but<br>
&gt; not what it points at when it&#39;s finished.<br>
<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">I&#39;m not going to pretend that I know enough gra=
mmar to attempt<br>
a translation; but if &quot;farna&quot; is what it is just described as,<br=
>
and you really want *face*-down, describing the direction from<br>
&quot;to&#39;e flira stedu&quot; to &quot;flira&quot; might work; though, f=
or the<br>
orientation of the, *body* which is what you appear to really<br>
mean to describe, I&#39;d be more inclined to use &quot;tatru&quot; as a<br=
>
reference point; I know that one could question whether men have<br>
a &quot;tatru&quot; at all (though, they do have what could be described<br=
>
as vestigial mammary *glands*), but even still one could be<br>
taken, in a tanru at least, as meaning the direction of the<br>
torso on which other humans &quot;tatru&quot; normally are if the<br>
particular human does not have &quot;tatru&quot;; eg, male, too young, had<=
br>
a mastectomy, etc.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">--<br>
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quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
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nners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegr=
oups.com</a>.<br>
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roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .arpis.<br><br>

<p></p>

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