Received: from mail-bw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:59774) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RVW1k-0007k1-0h; Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:19:52 -0800 Received: by bkbzv15 with SMTP id zv15sf193715bkb.16 for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:19:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=AlffdlfLrxH9OZSE0+p7Jlgff7j6PJ3BCv4z1iCMoOw=; b=rjREETVe0ikJZ7gpJHHn1BOcnXhp5xvBmWS7dpJjTdqK/a4bUTZPX8/YwEYhnLBsOm S2lEt6pb9LnN0WYnso164xdnaI4r6XJATp8Cty/phQeO5IQfVT6ANlJ8qsaKTGYuykz7 brZnSzepscFSc1mmXBXNiF+TtclIreZMnxl5Q= Received: by 10.205.122.17 with SMTP id ge17mr463218bkc.14.1322605174439; Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:19:34 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.200.144 with SMTP id ew16ls9489976bkb.2.gmail; Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.205.122.77 with SMTP id gf13mr352569bkc.1.1322605173226; Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.205.122.77 with SMTP id gf13mr352568bkc.1.1322605173205; Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bw0-f50.google.com (mail-bw0-f50.google.com [209.85.214.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w8si3843032bkd.0.2011.11.29.14.19.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.50; Received: by mail-bw0-f50.google.com with SMTP id zx1so656017bkb.37 for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.157.133 with SMTP id b5mr51136597bkx.121.1322605173039; Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:19:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.72.197 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:19:11 -0800 (PST) From: MorphemeAddict Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:19:11 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] I want an apple To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175ddaac84642104b2e70324 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 2411 --0015175ddaac84642104b2e70324 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Someone (David Gowers?) recently (Aug. 17, 2011?) wrote: "You have an object in troci x2, but troci x2 is an abstraction. This is the same problem as with {mi djica lo plise} -- you don't desire an apple, you desire to possess an apple, or eat an apple... This is known as sumti raising. You need to put an abstraction in x2, then you will not be sumti-raising -- and will make sense, besides." I've wondered about this before. Why is wanting an object called sumti-raising? Why must the object (x2?) of {djica} be an abstraction? Is it simply because that's how the word was defined? If so, why was it defined that way? stevo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0015175ddaac84642104b2e70324 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Someone (David Gowers?) recently (Aug. 17, 2011?) wrote:
= =A0
"You have an object in troci x2, but troci x2 is an abst= raction. This is the same problem as with {mi djica lo plise} -- you don= 9;t desire an apple, you desire to possess an apple, or eat an apple... Thi= s is known as sumti raising. You need to put an abstraction in x2, then you= will not be sumti-raising -- and will make sense, besides."
=A0
I've wondered about this before. Why is wanting an o= bject called sumti-raising? Why must the object (x2?) of {djica} be an abst= raction? Is it simply because that's how the word was defined? If so, w= hy was it defined that way?
=A0
stevo
=A0

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