Received: from mail-iy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.210.189]:46808) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RdioR-00037E-An; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 05:36:00 -0800 Received: by iaeh11 with SMTP id h11sf14882937iae.16 for ; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 05:35:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Z/EtxcOVDmsyV8TbVuhpWHqGxf0yeE/JolNBF7NG5Aw=; b=h2dybsWWPlJpGdId0KTjDVEu6ZvFuvfp6OEv8SQj3t7Pcr0heixx2YejFYRnchmFZu af+jAad4iQkgWn3VCLZNcmcZjB8Uva4yiNjg0MmVx+FIYHCuzPjjy7WdWcqIwu4XjJUJ wy4ZiP0DgBVHlR/HJ6916XbX2RmIdtr2RN1oc= Received: by 10.50.158.229 with SMTP id wx5mr2371104igb.3.1324560943892; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 05:35:43 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.76.226 with SMTP id n2ls7415475igw.3.canary; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 05:35:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.159.3 with SMTP id j3mr9454934icx.8.1324560943405; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 05:35:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.171.67 with SMTP id as3msigc; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 22:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.189.194 with SMTP id gk2mr4063669pbc.3.1324450598381; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 22:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.189.194 with SMTP id gk2mr4063667pbc.3.1324450598364; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 22:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pw0-f52.google.com (mail-pw0-f52.google.com [209.85.160.52]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n3si3940026pbd.1.2011.12.20.22.56.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Dec 2011 22:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of neuroticmnemonics@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.52; Received: by mail-pw0-f52.google.com with SMTP id b10so3266599pbb.25 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 22:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.118.5 with SMTP id ki5mr9779400pbb.98.1324450598204; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 22:56:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.141.9 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 22:56:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Chris Patrick Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 01:56:17 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Curses! To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: neuroticmnemonics@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of neuroticmnemonics@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=neuroticmnemonics@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04462f386db6ba04b494af5b X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 14006 --f46d04462f386db6ba04b494af5b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To be honest, I would be offended if someone called me that. Sometimes, insults/curses do translate into other cultures. I believe what Mr. Jones is trying to argue here is that we should have specific, intensified, derogatory terms for various insults/curses that are fairly culture-neutral, i.e., I don't think anyone would take kindly to being called the equivalent of a "fucking retard" or the like. Concepts like "slut" or your example of the offspring of a flea who was confused about his nutrient sources would be harder to translate, obviously, and we might do well to leave out those kind of curses all together. On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Lee Carlson wrote: > Does "you are the son of a dung-eating flea" mean very much to you? > > Leland > > On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> I don't believe a word of that. Especially the part about "intellectual >> exercise". >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Lee Carlson wrote: >> >>> This has been revisited from time-to-time and the outcome is always that >>> *curses* and such are deeply invested in cultural context. As such a >>> language that is designed to be culturally neutral does not provide curses >>> outside of the cultural context of the particular user. For anyone is >>> raised with lojban as their primary language, the concept of cursing, and >>> expletives will likely be an intellectual exercise, rather than an >>> emotional outburst. >>> >>> mi'e brais >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 10:15 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>>> >>>>> Is it just me, or is this group rather slow of late? >>>>> >>>>> Well, in part to spark up some conversation on here, and in part >>>>> because I'd like to be able to curse in Lojban, I'm proposing we come up >>>>> with some Lojbanic curses. >>>>> >>>>> And I don't necessarily mean shit, fuck, damn, etc. I mean more along >>>>> the lines of "You pea-brained sack of twat-juice!", or "Cum-guzzling gutter >>>>> slut!" or "Republican" (that last one was a joke). >>>>> >>>>> So, to start things off, here's one from me: >>>>> >>>>> tolmencrerai : x1 is a fucking retard (not in the mental disability >>>>> sense) to x2 because of x3 >>>>> >>>>> i.e. {do tolmencrerai fi lonu lo do carce pu daspo lo mi rozgu} = "You >>>>> fucking retard! You ran over my roses!" >>>>> >>>> >>>> Actually, a better translation would probably be "You're a fucking >>>> retard for running over my roses!" >>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>> >>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The World is a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > The World is a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --f46d04462f386db6ba04b494af5b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To be honest, I would be offended if someone called me that. Sometimes, ins= ults/curses do translate into other cultures. I believe what Mr. Jones is t= rying to argue here is that we should have specific, intensified, derogator= y terms for various insults/curses that are fairly culture-neutral, i.e., I= don't think anyone would take kindly to being called the equivalent of= a "fucking retard" or the like. Concepts like "slut" o= r your example of the offspring of a flea who was confused about his nutrie= nt sources would be harder to translate, obviously, and we might do well to= leave out those kind of curses all together.

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Lee Carlso= n <lorddraqo@gm= ail.com> wrote:
Does "= you are the son of a dung-eating flea" mean very much to you?

L= eland

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>= wrote:
I don't believe a word of that. Especial= ly the part about "intellectual exercise".


On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Lee Car= lson <lorddraqo@gmail.com> wrote:
This has been revisited from time-to-time and the outco= me is always that curses and such are deeply invested in cultural co= ntext. As such a language that is designed to be culturally neutral does no= t provide curses outside of the cultural context of the particular user. Fo= r anyone is raised with lojban as their primary language, the concept of cu= rsing, and expletives will likely be an intellectual exercise, rather than = an emotional outburst.

mi'e brais

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 10:15 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gma= il.com> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Jonathan J= ones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
Is it just me, or is this group rather slow of late?

Well, in part t= o spark up some conversation on here, and in part because I'd like to b= e able to curse in Lojban, I'm proposing we come up with some Lojbanic = curses.

And I don't necessarily mean shit, fuck, damn, etc. I mean more alo= ng the lines of "You pea-brained sack of twat-juice!", or "C= um-guzzling gutter slut!" or "Republican" (that last one was= a joke).

So, to start things off, here's one from me:

tolmencrerai : = x1 is a fucking retard (not in the mental disability sense) to x2 because o= f x3

i.e. {do tolmencrerai fi lonu lo do carce pu daspo lo mi rozgu}= =3D "You fucking retard! You ran over my roses!"

Actually, a better translation would probably b= e "You're a fucking retard for running over my roses!"

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Lu= ke, I am your father. :D )

=


--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'= ;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
The World i= s a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'= e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. m= i patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<= br>

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
The World i= s a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
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