Received: from mail-iy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.210.189]:42499) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RdxWN-0001yF-G5; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:18:26 -0800 Received: by iaeh11 with SMTP id h11sf17026315iae.16 for ; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:18:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=RuZHeyluoJxxHvDmwYnVRajC4wpAkVZy8IIT6HD3xYE=; b=7LDAygzu8HLAVLIYDTgKzWokP3Xfkcxvo1s4Vi5FccjBoaNwERslqdrD+dKMf0KGAV FPAiZWYhH6NErwmOQIHkbUeqAe5k6QK65lmMGiOn8Z9qKxJ/NRmBLXRAHpEwaIWb8Wze nwFLlRXFKVBakYAMz6gsWa/tvrMs6ChN6C548= Received: by 10.50.158.229 with SMTP id wx5mr3320718igb.3.1324617488784; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:18:08 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.68.202 with SMTP id w10ls9130577ibi.7.gmail; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:18:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.43.48.202 with SMTP id ux10mr11370587icb.6.1324617487991; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:18:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.43.48.202 with SMTP id ux10mr11370586icb.6.1324617487975; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:18:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-tul01m020-f175.google.com (mail-tul01m020-f175.google.com [209.85.214.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id wp6si9511069igc.3.2011.12.22.21.18.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:18:07 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lorddraqo@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.175; Received: by obcwn6 with SMTP id wn6so6688499obc.34 for ; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:18:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.49.1 with SMTP id q1mr11385207obn.48.1324617487625; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:18:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.17.6 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:18:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201112222330.28334.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 23:18:07 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Curses! From: Lee Carlson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lorddraqo@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lorddraqo@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lorddraqo@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0447850bd02ca704b4bb8a9c X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 12305 --f46d0447850bd02ca704b4bb8a9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 aionys, if language does not serve a purpose then it is nothing but noise. If the presence of expletives will strengthen lojban, make the language more *expressive* and more useful, I am all for it. If you can tell me what expletives will express, other than rage/frustration (which I feel that *oi*does quite well) then I will be happy to come on board. Otherwise I feel that expletives are just another example of *malglico* that we can do without. mu'o mi'e brais On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > Why does it matter what purpose it serves? If you don't like cursing, > don't. I am full agreement that there is a such thing as too much > expletive. But I also think there is a such thing as not enough. > > > On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Lee Carlson wrote: > >> I thought that the *cu* could be left out if it did not create >> confusion. As it appears to do so, I will amend my phrasing to reflect this >> and say: *le cevni cu kurji ko* >> As to arpis comment regarding the need for phrases that require no >> thought: This is one of my concerns/gripes/disquiets with regard to * >> cursing/swearing*. From my experience people use expletives when their >> desire is to vent emotionally with something that sounds a bit more >> civilized than a wordless scream of frustration/rage. Expletives, whether >> curse words, swearing, or otherwise seldom carry any true semantic content >> other than to provide a purely emotional label for the object of the user's >> frustration. Most people resort to cursing/swearing when they do not wish >> to be bothered to cerebrate around their rage/frustration though they want >> to express their feelings to others around them, or often just themselves. >> This is why my first responses to this thread were to question why we would >> need cursing. I can understand nursery rhymes, as these all started out as >> cautionary tales or lessons for children even if we have lost their >> original meaning through the years. So my question still stands as: what >> *purpose* does cursing fulfill, other than a cathartic release? >> >> >> mu'o mi'e brais >> >> On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >> >>> On Thursday 22 December 2011 22:07:08 Lee Carlson wrote: >>> > I now have a better feel for what aionys is looking for, and I can >>> > appreciate it more fully. For m'self I use the construction *le cevni >>> kurji >>> > ko* in place of the traditional pagan "blessed be." Since we are >>> looking at >>> > expletives that will fit the lojbanic culture, perhaps blessings can >>> also >>> > be derived. I happen to agree that culturally neutral does not mean >>> > culturally absent; 'tis just that the culture of lojbanistan is still >>> > evolving and I had not considered curses to this point. >>> >>> You mean "le cevni cu kurji ko", right? >>> >>> Pierre >>> -- >>> I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> The World is a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- The World is a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --f46d0447850bd02ca704b4bb8a9c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable aionys, if = language does not serve a purpose then it is nothing but noise. If the pres= ence of expletives will strengthen lojban, make the language more expres= sive and more useful, I am all for it. If you can tell me what expletiv= es will express, other than rage/frustration (which I feel that oi d= oes quite well) then I will be happy to come on board. Otherwise I feel tha= t expletives are just another example of malglico that we can do wit= hout.

mu'o mi'e brais

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
Why does it matter what purpose it serves? I= f you don't like cursing, don't. I am full agreement that there is = a such thing as too much expletive. But I also think there is a such thing = as not enough.


On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Lee Carlson <lorddraqo@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
I thought t= hat the cu could be left out if it did not create confusion. As it a= ppears to do so, I will amend my phrasing to reflect this and say: le ce= vni cu kurji ko
As to arpis comment regarding the need for phrases that require no thought:= This is one of my concerns/gripes/disquiets with regard to cursing/swea= ring. From my experience people use expletives when their desire is to = vent emotionally with something that sounds a bit more civilized than a wor= dless scream of frustration/rage. Expletives, whether curse words, swearing= , or otherwise seldom carry any true semantic content other than to provide= a purely emotional label for the object of the user's frustration. Mos= t people resort to cursing/swearing when they do not wish to be bothered to= cerebrate around their rage/frustration though they want to express their = feelings to others around them, or often just themselves. This is why my fi= rst responses to this thread were to question why we would need cursing. I = can understand nursery rhymes, as these all started out as cautionary tales= or lessons for children even if we have lost their original meaning throug= h the years. So my question still stands as: what purpose does cursi= ng fulfill, other than a cathartic release?


mu'o mi'e brais
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Pierre Abbat = <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Thursday 22 December 2011 22:07:08 L= ee Carlson wrote:
> I now have a better feel for what aionys is looking for, and I can
> appreciate it more fully. For m'self I use the construction = *le cevni kurji
> ko* in place of the traditional pagan "blessed be." Since we= are looking at
> expletives that will fit the lojbanic culture, perhaps blessings = can also
> be derived. I happen to agree that culturally neutral does not mean > culturally absent; 'tis just that the culture of lojbanistan is st= ill
> evolving and I had not considered curses to this point.

You mean "le cevni cu kurji ko", right?

Pierre
--
I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wal= es.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




-= -
The World is a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper.=

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai k= o cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to t= he Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
The World i= s a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper.

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--f46d0447850bd02ca704b4bb8a9c--