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Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Jingle Bells song
From: ianek <janek37@gmail.com>
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On 24 December 2011 14:53, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Saturday, December 24, 2011 4:16:41 PM UTC+4, ianek wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24 Gru, 12:10, gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Some notes:
>> > > * shouldn't it be {te tonga} or {se janbe}? The former is easier to
>> > > fit in the rhythm.
>> >
>> > I agree that in lojban the bell and the sound it emits are
>> > interconnected.
>> > But just singing {janbe lo'e} is a bit strange.
>>
>> What would you achieve by {lo'e} here? I don't get it.
>
> I just mean that sound and bell meanings are in one gismu therefore in
> lojban we can do with only one word as opposed to English.
> So {janbe lo'e} is {bell producing typical sound} as x2 of janbe is the
> sound so there is no need in tonga in such case.

You got it wrong. {lo'e} is a gadri, in the same sema'o as {lo} and
{le}. {lo'e janbe} is a typical bell, while {janbe lo'e} is no more
grammatical than {janbe le}.
I suppose you wanted to use {zu'i}. (I haven't seen it used so far)

>> {je} and its friends are deceitful. They bind all the arguments of
>> connected selbri (I'm not sure what happens when they have different
>> numbers of arguments). So when you say {janbe je vitno}, it implies
>> that the sound of bells and the property in which they're eternal is
>> the same thing, and I doubt you can pass sound as a property.
>>
> Is it really so ?

OK, sorry, it's an open question, as I was told some time ago. But
it's weird to me.
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/browse_thread/thread/9f7cbbf176743206

> Not considering this song what is your translation of the phrase {eternal
> sound produced by a bell} ?

I would translate it as {lo vitno sance be lo janbe} or {lo vitno se
janbe} (or cimni instead of vitno? I don't know)

>
>> Also, I suggest changing the second half of the refrain to
>>
>> u'i se salcarce fi
>> lo pamei xirma ku
>>
>> Unless you like it less than your version, of course.
>>
>
> OK, now there are two authors. .ui.
> I'm sure there is a lot of room for improvement.
> Then in your version you can change the first {u'i} to {ni'o} to avoid
> tautology

It's nice that you like it! {se salcarce} is quite a tongue twister
though, isn't it?

mu'o mi'e ianek

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