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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] xu zoi ly saiaspa ly cu fu'ivla
From: Stephen Pollei <stephen.pollei@gmail.com>
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2011/12/15 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Stephen Pollei
> <stephen.pollei@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter4.html#s3
>> says "all brivla ... always contain a consonant pair in the first five
>> letters" .
>
> That's true of all lujvo, but it's not really necessary for fu'ivla.
> There doesn't seem to be any justification for ".a'a'anka" to be valid
> but not "pa'a'anka".

OK I didn't know the cll got superseded at this point.

>> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Exhaustive+list+of+short+fu%27ivla+forms
>> lists saiaspa as a fu'ivla even though the "sp" consonant pair isn't
>> fully within the first 5 letters. Is it merely good enough to start
>> the pair within the first 5?
>
> "saiaspa" would not be accepted by the PEG morphology, but not because
> of any 5-letter rule, but because it would break as "sa iaspa". (The
> PEG morphology does not require a pause before i/u as semivowels), I
> changed the example to "sa'aispa".

Yes I need to get camxes and jbofi'e so I can test things out. I
wonder how much of the decision of where camxes breaks things is
driven by the grammar ? does jaiaspa act different than saiaspa ,
caiaspa , daiaspa, faiaspa, etc etc. Also seems that what experimental
cmavo the parser does or doesn't know could effect results in a few
circumstances.

>
> That page was done before the Lojban morphology existed, I should
> update it. (Not everyone agrees about the PEG's treatment of long
> strings of vowels or consonants though.)

http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Morphology%3A+Rules+of+formation
[[ Any speech generated following these rules will be uniquely
decomposable by the PEG morphology algorithm.  ....You must pause in
the following cases: ... Before any word that starts with a vowel or
diphthong or y. ]]

It does warn you that you might need to pause before such vowel leading fu'=
ivla.

ki'e xorxes

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