Received: from mail-bk0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:34916) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Rr4s7-0003o2-KP; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:47:08 -0800 Received: by bkaq10 with SMTP id q10sf2027614bka.16 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:46:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:x-mailer:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=UJg39n6ATq7gnEr2UXTywtZiAmDoW09fxBPPTrQ9oPE=; b=bmCmDSwvauemfd5pfR69yucTlV+Qo97BrL/CAe+Bq4E3j+Vx0IQQI5JPN+Oqpn2uxN BdQzpTNSoGS/eVyIrCpyWAmA9XpZZwB0/3IuA3H9Nxr3Bev+zgSfN50mw9YiySd7ukqa tE6lowr9xteXW/hzv+nqjclK05K3fn72pwRyI= Received: by 10.205.126.141 with SMTP id gw13mr548969bkc.10.1327743996947; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:46:36 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.154.4 with SMTP id m4ls9913225bkw.1.gmail; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:46:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.0.84 with SMTP id 20mr902267bka.2.1327743996176; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:46:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.0.84 with SMTP id 20mr902266bka.2.1327743996108; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:46:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f48.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f48.google.com [209.85.215.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b3si12554021bka.0.2012.01.28.01.46.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:46:36 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.48; Received: by lagz14 with SMTP id z14so2222919lag.21 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:46:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.130.8 with SMTP id oa8mr5257085lab.5.1327743995685; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:46:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from hoga (c-7141e353.027-10-67766c2.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se. [83.227.65.113]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m3sm8179151lbm.17.2012.01.28.01.46.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:46:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:46:31 +0100 From: Daniel Brockman To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <17420344.123.1326349669489.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcb25> <57CDF052-0498-43F6-9B02-80622D00E054@lojban.org.uk> <796CDD9E-0B54-45CA-B1FA-55A25259411E@lojban.org.uk>

<6DC8CD59-4380-46DE-8223-65FCA6B99131@lojban.org.uk>

Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] iOS/Android app? X-Mailer: sparrow 1.5 (build 1043.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: dbrockman@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dbrockman@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 13783 dude, who=92s saying you would be forbidden from converting it into another= format? On Saturday, January 28, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > That analogy doesn't work. Hard-copy isn't a format, is a presentation me= dium. > =20 > .epub is a format, as is .pdf. .html, .doc, .odf, etc. An e-reader is a p= resentation medium, as is a desktop, laptop, netbook, tablet, etc. > =20 > And even if we were to allow that a traditional book is both a format /an= d/ a presentation medium (which I don't), scanners have existed for years, = and are perfectly capable of being used to transfer a book's contents to an= y kind of other medium's format, usually with no loss of information during= the process. > =20 > Is there /any/ other format to which iBooks are capable of being transfer= red to? Can you name one format that is not only available to Apple devices= to which an iBook can be converted? > =20 > I'm against proprietary formats in general. I honestly don't care what "w= onderful" features the format may provide. There's is no way I'm buying a $= 800 device just to be able to access, literally, /one/ thing I couldn't oth= erwise. Especially since I already have a tablet, a smartphone, a laptop, a= nd a desktop. > =20 > The point is, limiting distribution to noly those who have "X", means tha= t any one who doesn't is automatically excluded. Especially for a language,= /any/ kind of exclusion of people is BAD. I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy = having such features- they may be valuable, they may not, I have no opinion= . What I'm saying is that whether or not such a thing exists, I /won't/ hav= e it, because of the proprietary nature of the item. I happen to be dead se= t against participating in the money-vacuum that is Apple Inc. (my Android = tablet has equivalent specs to the iPad 2 and is $500(!) cheaper), but my s= tance is the same regardless of the company behind it. > =20 > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 1:43 AM, kozmikreis wrote: > > Extending your line of reasoning, should we immediately cease distribut= ing hard copies of the CLL because the format isn't compatible with e-reade= rs? :-p > > =20 > > Yes the iBook format is only compatible with a limited selection of dev= ices, does that somehow invalidate taking advantage of the format in additi= on to the plethora of open formats the new CLL can be transformed into? =20 > > =20 > > kozmikreis > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > On 28 Jan 2012, at 00:10, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > Not to mention the proprietary nature of the format that automaticall= y excludes anyone without an iPad, iPod Touch, or iPhone. > > > =20 > > > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 3:26 PM, kozmikreis wrote: > > > > That is true, but is missing the point of the additional richness t= he proprietary iBook format allows for such as interactive multiple-choice = questions, audio clips, video clips, and other learning aids that might be = attractive in an enhanced version of the CLL :-) =20 > > > > =20 > > > > kozmikreis > > > > =20 > > > > =20 > > > > =20 > > > > On 27 Jan 2012, at 21:32, Aaron Hawryluk wrote: > > > > > Or, if there's an html version in existence, it could just be por= ted to .epub with Calibre... > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II X. =20 > > > > > On Jan 27, 2012 6:50 AM, "CosmicRay" wrote: > > > > > > Those were very much my thoughts too - that porting a regularly= updated open source formatted book into a proprietary format was going to = be awfully tough to keep up with. However, unlike apps, I think iBooks are = static once published. Authors don't push out a v1.x update after the fact.= With this in mind it's probably still worth forking the next stable CLL ma= jor version and porting it, perhaps even embedding an errata section by use= of a web view that points back to the github repo in case of any major boo= -boos. > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > kozmikreis > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > On 24 Jan 2012, at 02:44, Joshua Proehl wrote: > > > > > > > I was just looking into the idea of creating a CLL iBook as w= ell! =20 > > > > > > > The problem that I see is that iBooks Author doesn't appear t= o play very nicely with the idea of streaming data in from other files. Whi= ch means that it's not really possible to script "convert the source files = into an iBook", but rather each change made to the source files would have = to be manually made to the iBook as well. Which is going to rapidly become = painful. Further looking into is required however, as it would be a truly i= ncredible platform to use. > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > Josh > > > > > > > _____________________ > > > > > > > Instead of our drab slogging forth and back to the fishing bo= ats, there's a reason to life! We can lift ourselves out of ignorance, we c= an find ourselves as creatures of excellence and intelligence and skill. We= can be free! We can learn to fly! > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > =97 Richard Bach, 'Jonathan Livingston Seagull,' 1970. > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:11, kozmikreis wrote: > > > > > > > > I look forward to trying that out, please let us know when = it's available. It'll be good when there's finally a Lojban-specific app in= the iTunes Store :-) > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > Regarding my conlanger meet-up app idea, I retain no rights= to the idea should you or anyone else wants to implement it either solo or= as a collaboration. > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > On a slightly related note, there's now a free iBooks Autho= r app in the Mac App Store for authoring rich content books for iPad consum= ption. It looks ideal for creating and sharing educational textbooks. The C= LL as an iBook would be a good place to start, once the latest changes to i= t have been completed - thoughts anyone? =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > kozmikreis > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > On 22 Jan 2012, at 09:13, aryrain laubels wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have written a Lojban Dictionary in pure Objective C, I= am currently waiting for approval. I finished it a week or so ago but post= ed it today. But some other applications would be interesting. > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 9:58 AM, kozmikreis wrote: > > > > > > > > > > [repost, original seems to have been lost to the aether= ] > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > I've got an Apple iOS Developer account and would be ha= ppy to have a hand in writing a Lojban app for iOS (and Android if I can ge= t the damn SDK and toolset stable), it's just I haven't thought of an app i= dea that has anything better to it than those that already exist. > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > My dev language of choice would probably be the JavaScr= ipt variant from Appcelerator, not that it's anything amazing, but it can c= ompile to multiple platforms and takes away some of the suckage of Objectiv= e C. > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > One idea I had was perhaps a meet-up app for conlangers= in general, whereby you tick the list of languages you speak or are learni= ng to speak and perhaps your level of proficiency, and let it run in the ba= ckground occasionally checking your location in to a central server. When s= omeone else with a matching conlang interest is nearby the phone can alert = you so you can meet up and say coi. Might be good for finding people to pra= ctice with? > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > kozmikreis > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > On 12 Jan 2012, at 06:27, kalsa wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > coi > > > > > > > > > > > is there any talk of making a lojbanic/lojban beginne= rs ipod app? apps like flashcardlet are good for studying words, but i was = thinking maybe a more lojban specific app would help for people who are alr= eady wanting to learn, getting to look at it on the go, or maybe to hear sp= oken lojban, or maybe just to make it more accessible to a wider variety of= people. Just a thought. =20 > > > > > > > > > > > co'o > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > -- =20 > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the= Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googl= egroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginn= ers+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@goo= glegroups.com). > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.= com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > -- =20 > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the G= oogle Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googleg= roups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginner= s+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com). > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co= m/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > -- =20 > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goo= gle Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegro= ups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+= unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googleg= roups.com). > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/= group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > > > =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > -- =20 > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroup= s.com (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroup= s.com). > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/gr= oup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > > =20 > > > > =20 > > > > =20 > > > > -- =20 > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google = Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.= com (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsu= bscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroup= s.com). > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/grou= p/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > -- =20 > > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > =20 > > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > -- =20 > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gr= oups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.co= m (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubs= cribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.co= m). > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > =20 > > =20 > > -- =20 > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com = (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscr= ibe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.co= m). > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lo= jban-beginners?hl=3Den. > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > -- =20 > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > =20 > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > =20 > -- =20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com (m= ailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscrib= e@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an-beginners?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.