Received: from mail-bk0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:46755) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Rr4uR-0003pf-Gy; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:49:32 -0800 Received: by bkaq10 with SMTP id q10sf2028573bka.16 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:49:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:x-mailer:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=ApsvLSTzvLrUAA++M6te35iDi/ZT/k5eOXHotWJ+P9g=; b=VyTOT29sZIG25VERaKWdLzJX9yljqsXasIqXP5v6R0045iWlK7bVLG66/TSvcUJZO+ yaj9W6dHXsp/DHeWuA7CK6TU1HkhOyPnL4SslsCWlK/ULh3x1Td6MsfrnPVY3onGzSxU nqdCC+hyDmNCJtIGmfKYWK84ZrCSzcT9QFexM= Received: by 10.205.134.146 with SMTP id ic18mr512225bkc.19.1327744140805; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:49:00 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.154.4 with SMTP id m4ls9914648bkw.1.gmail; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.205.134.133 with SMTP id ic5mr899020bkc.8.1327744140182; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.205.134.133 with SMTP id ic5mr899019bkc.8.1327744140164; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f44.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 20si12473129bko.3.2012.01.28.01.49.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.44; Received: by mail-lpp01m010-f44.google.com with SMTP id l5so2281853lah.17 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.148.228 with SMTP id tv4mr5386980lab.9.1327744139951; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from hoga (c-7141e353.027-10-67766c2.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se. [83.227.65.113]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k4sm8204211lbw.10.2012.01.28.01.48.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:48:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:48:56 +0100 From: Daniel Brockman To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <7151CD7440D7445E8C5A97AD4A542388@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <17420344.123.1326349669489.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcb25> <57CDF052-0498-43F6-9B02-80622D00E054@lojban.org.uk> <796CDD9E-0B54-45CA-B1FA-55A25259411E@lojban.org.uk>

<6DC8CD59-4380-46DE-8223-65FCA6B99131@lojban.org.uk>

Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] iOS/Android app? X-Mailer: sparrow 1.5 (build 1043.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: dbrockman@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dbrockman@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 14808 also I=92m not really following the discussion, so what I just said may hav= e been stupid and irrelevant. Sorry, I=92ll try to refrain from commenting = without reading in the future. On Saturday, January 28, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Daniel Brockman wrote: > dude, who=92s saying you would be forbidden from converting it into anoth= er format? > =20 > =20 > =20 > On Saturday, January 28, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > =20 > > That analogy doesn't work. Hard-copy isn't a format, is a presentation = medium. > > =20 > > .epub is a format, as is .pdf. .html, .doc, .odf, etc. An e-reader is a= presentation medium, as is a desktop, laptop, netbook, tablet, etc. > > =20 > > And even if we were to allow that a traditional book is both a format /= and/ a presentation medium (which I don't), scanners have existed for years= , and are perfectly capable of being used to transfer a book's contents to = any kind of other medium's format, usually with no loss of information duri= ng the process. > > =20 > > Is there /any/ other format to which iBooks are capable of being transf= erred to? Can you name one format that is not only available to Apple devic= es to which an iBook can be converted? > > =20 > > I'm against proprietary formats in general. I honestly don't care what = "wonderful" features the format may provide. There's is no way I'm buying a= $800 device just to be able to access, literally, /one/ thing I couldn't o= therwise. Especially since I already have a tablet, a smartphone, a laptop,= and a desktop. > > =20 > > The point is, limiting distribution to noly those who have "X", means t= hat any one who doesn't is automatically excluded. Especially for a languag= e, /any/ kind of exclusion of people is BAD. I'm not saying I wouldn't enjo= y having such features- they may be valuable, they may not, I have no opini= on. What I'm saying is that whether or not such a thing exists, I /won't/ h= ave it, because of the proprietary nature of the item. I happen to be dead = set against participating in the money-vacuum that is Apple Inc. (my Androi= d tablet has equivalent specs to the iPad 2 and is $500(!) cheaper), but my= stance is the same regardless of the company behind it. > > =20 > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 1:43 AM, kozmikreis wrote: > > > Extending your line of reasoning, should we immediately cease distrib= uting hard copies of the CLL because the format isn't compatible with e-rea= ders? :-p > > > =20 > > > Yes the iBook format is only compatible with a limited selection of d= evices, does that somehow invalidate taking advantage of the format in addi= tion to the plethora of open formats the new CLL can be transformed into? = =20 > > > =20 > > > kozmikreis > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > On 28 Jan 2012, at 00:10, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > > Not to mention the proprietary nature of the format that automatica= lly excludes anyone without an iPad, iPod Touch, or iPhone. > > > > =20 > > > > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 3:26 PM, kozmikreis wrote: > > > > > That is true, but is missing the point of the additional richness= the proprietary iBook format allows for such as interactive multiple-choic= e questions, audio clips, video clips, and other learning aids that might b= e attractive in an enhanced version of the CLL :-) =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > kozmikreis > > > > > =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > On 27 Jan 2012, at 21:32, Aaron Hawryluk wrote: > > > > > > Or, if there's an html version in existence, it could just be p= orted to .epub with Calibre... > > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II X. =20 > > > > > > On Jan 27, 2012 6:50 AM, "CosmicRay" wrote: > > > > > > > Those were very much my thoughts too - that porting a regular= ly updated open source formatted book into a proprietary format was going t= o be awfully tough to keep up with. However, unlike apps, I think iBooks ar= e static once published. Authors don't push out a v1.x update after the fac= t. With this in mind it's probably still worth forking the next stable CLL = major version and porting it, perhaps even embedding an errata section by u= se of a web view that points back to the github repo in case of any major b= oo-boos. > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > kozmikreis > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > On 24 Jan 2012, at 02:44, Joshua Proehl wrote: > > > > > > > > I was just looking into the idea of creating a CLL iBook as= well! =20 > > > > > > > > The problem that I see is that iBooks Author doesn't appear= to play very nicely with the idea of streaming data in from other files. W= hich means that it's not really possible to script "convert the source file= s into an iBook", but rather each change made to the source files would hav= e to be manually made to the iBook as well. Which is going to rapidly becom= e painful. Further looking into is required however, as it would be a truly= incredible platform to use. > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > Josh > > > > > > > > _____________________ > > > > > > > > Instead of our drab slogging forth and back to the fishing = boats, there's a reason to life! We can lift ourselves out of ignorance, we= can find ourselves as creatures of excellence and intelligence and skill. = We can be free! We can learn to fly! > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =97 Richard Bach, 'Jonathan Livingston Seagull,' 1970. > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:11, kozmikreis wrote: > > > > > > > > > I look forward to trying that out, please let us know whe= n it's available. It'll be good when there's finally a Lojban-specific app = in the iTunes Store :-) > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > Regarding my conlanger meet-up app idea, I retain no righ= ts to the idea should you or anyone else wants to implement it either solo = or as a collaboration. > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > On a slightly related note, there's now a free iBooks Aut= hor app in the Mac App Store for authoring rich content books for iPad cons= umption. It looks ideal for creating and sharing educational textbooks. The= CLL as an iBook would be a good place to start, once the latest changes to= it have been completed - thoughts anyone? =20 > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > kozmikreis > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > On 22 Jan 2012, at 09:13, aryrain laubels wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have written a Lojban Dictionary in pure Objective C,= I am currently waiting for approval. I finished it a week or so ago but po= sted it today. But some other applications would be interesting. > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 9:58 AM, kozmikreis wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > [repost, original seems to have been lost to the aeth= er] > > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > > I've got an Apple iOS Developer account and would be = happy to have a hand in writing a Lojban app for iOS (and Android if I can = get the damn SDK and toolset stable), it's just I haven't thought of an app= idea that has anything better to it than those that already exist. > > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > > My dev language of choice would probably be the JavaS= cript variant from Appcelerator, not that it's anything amazing, but it can= compile to multiple platforms and takes away some of the suckage of Object= ive C. > > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > > One idea I had was perhaps a meet-up app for conlange= rs in general, whereby you tick the list of languages you speak or are lear= ning to speak and perhaps your level of proficiency, and let it run in the = background occasionally checking your location in to a central server. When= someone else with a matching conlang interest is nearby the phone can aler= t you so you can meet up and say coi. Might be good for finding people to p= ractice with? > > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > > kozmikreis > > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > > On 12 Jan 2012, at 06:27, kalsa wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > coi > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any talk of making a lojbanic/lojban begin= ners ipod app? apps like flashcardlet are good for studying words, but i wa= s thinking maybe a more lojban specific app would help for people who are a= lready wanting to learn, getting to look at it on the go, or maybe to hear = spoken lojban, or maybe just to make it more accessible to a wider variety = of people. Just a thought. =20 > > > > > > > > > > > > co'o > > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > > -- =20 > > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to t= he Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@goo= glegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-begi= nners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@g= ooglegroups.com (mailto:2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com)). > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.googl= e.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > > -- =20 > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the= Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googl= egroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginn= ers+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googl= egroups.com). > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.= com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > > -- =20 > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the G= oogle Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googleg= roups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginner= s+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googl= egroups.com (mailto:2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com)). > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co= m/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > -- =20 > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goo= gle Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegro= ups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+= unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegro= ups.com). > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/= group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > > > =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > -- =20 > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroup= s.com (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegro= ups.com (mailto:2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com)). > > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/gr= oup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > > =20 > > > > =20 > > > > =20 > > > > =20 > > > > =20 > > > > =20 > > > > -- =20 > > > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > > =20 > > > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'= o > > > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > > =20 > > > > =20 > > > > -- =20 > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google = Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.= com (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsu= bscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.= com). > > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/grou= p/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > -- =20 > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gr= oups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.co= m (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubs= cribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.= com (mailto:2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com)). > > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > -- =20 > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > =20 > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > =20 > > -- =20 > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com = (mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com). > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscr= ibe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com)= . > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lo= jban-beginners?hl=3Den. > =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.