On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 2:46= AM, Daniel Brockman <dbrockman@gmail.com> wrote:

dude, who=92s saying you would be forbidden = from converting it into another format?

On Saturday, January 28, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote:

> That analogy doesn't work. Hard-copy isn't a format, is a pres= entation medium.
>
> .epub is a format, as is .pdf. .html, .doc, .odf, etc. An e-reader is = a presentation medium, as is a desktop, laptop, netbook, tablet, etc.
>
> And even if we were to allow that a traditional book is both a format = /and/ a presentation medium (which I don't), scanners have existed for = years, and are perfectly capable of being used to transfer a book's con= tents to any kind of other medium's format, usually with no loss of inf= ormation during the process.
>
> Is there /any/ other format to which iBooks are capable of being trans= ferred to? Can you name one format that is not only available to Apple devi= ces to which an iBook can be converted?
>
> I'm against proprietary formats in general. I honestly don't c= are what "wonderful" features the format may provide. There's= is no way I'm buying a $800 device just to be able to access, literall= y, /one/ thing I couldn't otherwise. Especially since I already have a = tablet, a smartphone, a laptop, and a desktop.
>
> The point is, limiting distribution to noly those who have "X&quo= t;, means that any one who doesn't is automatically excluded. Especiall= y for a language, /any/ kind of exclusion of people is BAD. I'm not say= ing I wouldn't enjoy having such features- they may be valuable, they m= ay not, I have no opinion. What I'm saying is that whether or not such = a thing exists, I /won't/ have it, because of the proprietary nature of= the item. I happen to be dead set against participating in the money-vacuu= m that is Apple Inc. (my Android tablet has equivalent specs to the iPad 2 = and is $500(!) cheaper), but my stance is the same regardless of the compan= y behind it.
>

> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 1:43 AM, kozmikreis &l= t;kozmikreis@lojban.org.uk = (mailto:kozmikreis@lojban.org.u= k)> wrote:
> > Extending your line of reasoning, should we immediately cease dis= tributing hard copies of the CLL because the format isn't compatible wi= th e-readers? :-p
> >
> > Yes the iBook format is only compatible with a limited selection = of devices, does that somehow invalidate taking advantage of the format in = addition to the plethora of open formats the new CLL can be transformed int= o?
> >
> > kozmikreis
> >
> >
> >
> > On 28 Jan 2012, at 00:10, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > > Not to mention the proprietary nature of the format that aut= omatically excludes anyone without an iPad, iPod Touch, or iPhone.
> > >

> > > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 3:26 PM, koz= mikreis <kozmikreis@lojban.o= rg.uk (mailto:kozmikreis@lo= jban.org.uk)> wrote:
> > > > That is true, but is missing the point of the additiona= l richness the proprietary iBook format allows for such as interactive mult= iple-choice questions, audio clips, video clips, and other learning aids th= at might be attractive in an enhanced version of the CLL :-)
> > > >
> > > > kozmikreis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 27 Jan 2012, at 21:32, Aaron Hawryluk wrote:
> > > > > Or, if there's an html version in existence, i= t could just be ported to .epub with Calibre...
> > > > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II X.

> > > > > On Jan 27, 2012 6:50 AM, &= quot;CosmicRay" <cr@cosmicray= .co.uk (mailto:cr@cosmicray.co.uk= )> wrote:
> > > > > > Those were very much my thoughts too - that p= orting a regularly updated open source formatted book into a proprietary fo= rmat was going to be awfully tough to keep up with. However, unlike apps, I= think iBooks are static once published. Authors don't push out a v1.x = update after the fact. With this in mind it's probably still worth fork= ing the next stable CLL major version and porting it, perhaps even embeddin= g an errata section by use of a web view that points back to the github rep= o in case of any major boo-boos.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > kozmikreis
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 24 Jan 2012, at 02:44, Joshua Proehl wrote= :
> > > > > > > I was just looking into the idea of crea= ting a CLL iBook as well!
> > > > > > > The problem that I see is that iBooks Au= thor doesn't appear to play very nicely with the idea of streaming data= in from other files. Which means that it's not really possible to scri= pt "convert the source files into an iBook", but rather each chan= ge made to the source files would have to be manually made to the iBook as = well. Which is going to rapidly become painful. Further looking into is req= uired however, as it would be a truly incredible platform to use.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----
> > > > > > > Josh
> > > > > > > _____________________
> > > > > > > Instead of our drab slogging forth and b= ack to the fishing boats, there's a reason to life! We can lift ourselv= es out of ignorance, we can find ourselves as creatures of excellence and i= ntelligence and skill. We can be free! We can learn to fly!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > =97 Richard Bach, 'Jonathan Livingst= on Seagull,' 1970.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 23, = 2012 at 11:11, kozmikreis <k= ozmikreis@lojban.org.uk (mailto:kozmikreis@lojban.org.uk)> wrote:
> > > > > > > > I look forward to trying that out, = please let us know when it's available. It'll be good when there= 9;s finally a Lojban-specific app in the iTunes Store :-)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regarding my conlanger meet-up app = idea, I retain no rights to the idea should you or anyone else wants to imp= lement it either solo or as a collaboration.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On a slightly related note, there&#= 39;s now a free iBooks Author app in the Mac App Store for authoring rich c= ontent books for iPad consumption. It looks ideal for creating and sharing = educational textbooks. The CLL as an iBook would be a good place to start, = once the latest changes to it have been completed - thoughts anyone?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > kozmikreis
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 22 Jan 2012, at 09:13, aryrain l= aubels wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I have written a Lojban Dictio= nary in pure Objective C, I am currently waiting for approval. I finished i= t a week or so ago but posted it today. But some other applications would b= e interesting.
> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On Thu= , Jan 19, 2012 at 9:58 AM, kozmikreis <kozmikreis@lojban.org.uk (mailto:kozmikreis@lojban.org.uk)> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > [repost, original seems t= o have been lost to the aether]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I've got an Apple iOS= Developer account and would be happy to have a hand in writing a Lojban ap= p for iOS (and Android if I can get the damn SDK and toolset stable), it= 9;s just I haven't thought of an app idea that has anything better to i= t than those that already exist.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My dev language of choice= would probably be the JavaScript variant from Appcelerator, not that it= 9;s anything amazing, but it can compile to multiple platforms and takes aw= ay some of the suckage of Objective C.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > One idea I had was perhap= s a meet-up app for conlangers in general, whereby you tick the list of lan= guages you speak or are learning to speak and perhaps your level of profici= ency, and let it run in the background occasionally checking your location = in to a central server. When someone else with a matching conlang interest = is nearby the phone can alert you so you can meet up and say coi. Might be = good for finding people to practice with?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > kozmikreis
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 12 Jan 2012, at 06:27,= kalsa wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > coi
> > > > > > > > > > > is there any talk of= making a lojbanic/lojban beginners ipod app? apps like flashcardlet are go= od for studying words, but i was thinking maybe a more lojban specific app = would help for people who are already wanting to learn, getting to look at = it on the go, or maybe to hear spoken lojban, or maybe just to make it more= accessible to a wider variety of people. Just a thought.
> > > > > > > > > > > co'o
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > You received this message because y= ou are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.<= br>
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> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, sen= d email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bu= nsubscribe@googlegroups.com).

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> > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > You received this message because you ar= e subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are sub= scribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googleg= roups.com (mailto:= lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com).
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> > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> > >
> > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi p= atfu do zo'o
> > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the = Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

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> >
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.

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>
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "Lojban Beginners" group.

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