Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:40929) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S2gcF-0008F2-U5; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 02:18:41 -0800 Received: by vbbfd1 with SMTP id fd1sf4732071vbb.16 for ; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 02:18:28 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lojban-beginners+bncCM6-0ebTBhDZ9rf6BBoEJGK04A@googlegroups.com designates 10.50.192.161 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.50.192.161; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lojban-beginners+bncCM6-0ebTBhDZ9rf6BBoEJGK04A@googlegroups.com designates 10.50.192.161 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lojban-beginners+bncCM6-0ebTBhDZ9rf6BBoEJGK04A@googlegroups.com; dkim=pass header.i=lojban-beginners+bncCM6-0ebTBhDZ9rf6BBoEJGK04A@googlegroups.com Received: from mr.google.com ([10.50.192.161]) by 10.50.192.161 with SMTP id hh1mr10508761igc.5.1330510708094 (num_hops = 1); Wed, 29 Feb 2012 02:18:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authenticated:x-provags-id:date:from:to :subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version :x-y-gmx-trusted:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KB7q5BwfG9Yc83BUTwg5OgxoGv8a0XSe9ksoFH19eOI=; b=KwR/qIXjImlSlHwkzqk8pMegdQrLuCmZfSNjXEs3SZAqT5KzpMaLz5mQNfr8qsczN9 yqZcsNWdApsIBISj0tix2/jeauXxhelBcn/Ktso33muRcV/XWdCPX5pushvQN5fcnp6U 6FNnchVhEI2eARdv3htN8mb05q42xkHIlyrVc= Received: by 10.50.192.161 with SMTP id hh1mr2929803igc.5.1330510681931; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 02:18:01 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.236.101 with SMTP id ut5ls10619771igc.4.canary; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 02:18:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.134.134 with SMTP id l6mr10600491ict.3.1330510680376; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 02:18:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.209.5 with SMTP id mi5msigc; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.224.230 with SMTP id rf6mr1496142pbc.4.1330509335531; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.224.230 with SMTP id rf6mr1496141pbc.4.1330509335522; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net. [213.165.64.22]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id p7si13502947pbq.0.2012.02.29.01.55.34; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of kfa@gmx.net designates 213.165.64.22 as permitted sender) client-ip=213.165.64.22; Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 29 Feb 2012 09:55:33 -0000 Received: from 95-89-208-218-dynip.superkabel.de (EHLO unknown) [95.89.208.218] by mail.gmx.net (mp072) with SMTP; 29 Feb 2012 10:55:33 +0100 X-Authenticated: #370125 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18boqBmuJAbovBuoItnnar7C5bnxXh6VTsr6DyJI4 jE6UXpAz29/kbi Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 10:55:35 +0100 From: "Klaus F. Abel" To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: questions about 'cu' Message-ID: <20120229105535.00004f74@unknown> In-Reply-To: References: <20175076.35.1329644296130.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynlt17> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.10cvs42 (GTK+ 2.16.6; i586-pc-mingw32msvc) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Original-Sender: kfa@gmx.net X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of kfa@gmx.net designates 213.165.64.22 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kfa@gmx.net Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 1211 On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:07:58 -1000 Patrick wrote: > Well, I wouldn't say that "ca" (or any of selma'o PU) can replace "cu" > unambiguously. Take the following sentence: >=20 > lo ca klama ca pinxe >=20 > In this case, the first "ca" attaches to the sumti to make it mean > something like "the one currently going", where the second "ca" attaches = to > the selbri of the entire bridi, for a total meaning of "the one currently > going is currently drinking", possibly alluding to someone drinking while > driving or biking. >=20 How do you identify "pinxe" as a selbri in this case at all, i.e. what stop= s one from reading the whole "ca klama ca pinxe" as a tanru (regardless of = how it would make sense in translation)? Is this really ambiguous, or just = plain wrong (the selbri reading, I mean)? Klaus --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.