Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]:41222) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RzUcY-0001Dw-NY; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:53:46 -0800 Received: by ghbg22 with SMTP id g22sf6557848ghb.16 for ; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:53:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=nlQLjPKqRErXWdIQOKvTDVNV9FKOudmWY+5p2KOIzTs=; b=jpS4M9aRiS+9rgAt7SSzrTOhUo7mj2nqapA5Z5JGQYKCoXknHc9pT2KwdC9zE0SOoE b5zgqll3FrJp3mIAgKRd2Jwxvrw/DK2r+2m3ZmNLSJyQhnagx0tFdvNdNxR1wHG8vxVk fzn/UG3VfMEdjrLf5Pq9gzAYHKpzVSEClpOBA= Received: by 10.50.159.229 with SMTP id xf5mr3068860igb.0.1329749595620; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:53:15 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.45.9 with SMTP id c9ls6202265ibf.5.gmail; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.160.133 with SMTP id xk5mr3506910igb.4.1329749594418; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.160.133 with SMTP id xk5mr3506909igb.4.1329749594387; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-tul01m020-f176.google.com (mail-tul01m020-f176.google.com [209.85.214.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cg4si2399636igb.0.2012.02.20.06.53.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of adamlopresto@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.176; Received: by mail-tul01m020-f176.google.com with SMTP id wd18so10075127obb.21 for ; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of adamlopresto@gmail.com designates 10.182.193.73 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.182.193.73; Received: from mr.google.com ([10.182.193.73]) by 10.182.193.73 with SMTP id hm9mr3890411obc.29.1329749594288 (num_hops = 1); Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.193.73 with SMTP id hm9mr3359846obc.29.1329749594229; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:53:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.27.9 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:52:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20175076.35.1329644296130.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynlt17> From: Adam Lopresto Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:52:54 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: questions about 'cu' To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: adamlopresto@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of adamlopresto@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=adamlopresto@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04478507344d2d04b966746e X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 12509 --f46d04478507344d2d04b966746e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Just to further what others have said, and try to make it more concrete, you can achieve anything without {cu}, but sometimes at the expense of adding terminators. Your example is splendid. If we wanted to omit {cu}, we could instead use .iure'e le cevni ku kurji ko (using the actual terminator for LE in place of the catch-all {cu}), or we could rearrange things so we wouldn't need any separator at all. .iure'e le cevni ko kurji All of them are valid, all mean exactly the same thing, and your style is entirely your choice. The last form is the shortest, and matches my personal style. The {ku} version may be better as you're getting the hang of terminators. The {cu} version has the marginal benefit of explicitly marking the selbri, instead of relying on the listener to know that we've gotten to that level (I've heard people praise that, again in more complicated examples where it makes a difference). TMTOWTDI On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Lee Carlson wrote: > My thanks. I created a farewell, based on my spiritual path's "blessed > be," which I render as *iure'e le cevni cu kurji ko* by which I mean > "with spiritual love I direct you to act in such a way that your perception > of god (the divine) cares about/for you." Have I accomplished my goal? > > mi'o mi'e brais > > > On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Michael Turniansky < > mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Yes, don't let lindar and his dialect contingent mislead you. It DOES >> serve a purpose, but it can be worked around, as well. Its purpose is to >> mark which word/phrase in a bridi that is the main relationship. Can it be >> worked around? Yes, but as Pierre mentioned, it means properly closing off >> all open structures before then. >> >> So, what would you use in its place? That depnds entirely on what >> needs terminating. If nothing needs closing, the you don't need it. >> >> --gejyspa >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Lee Carlson wrote: >> >>> And here I was told that without cu one of my favorite statements made >>> no sense at all. So what is it: does cu serve a purpose, or not? If not, >>> then what would I use in it's place? >>> >>> mi'o brais >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:38 AM, Lindar wrote: >>> >>>> The short answer: >>>> It's never necessary. NEVER. >>>> It's a handy shortcut sometimes. >>>> Learn to do without it at first or your grammar will suck. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/CuzwB6IY5XEJ. >>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The World is a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > The World is a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --f46d04478507344d2d04b966746e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just to further what others have said, and try to make it more concrete, yo= u can achieve anything without {cu}, but sometimes at the expense of adding= terminators. Your example is splendid. If we wanted to omit {cu}, we could= instead use

.iure'e le cevni ku kurji ko

(using the actual terminator fo= r LE in place of the catch-all {cu}), or we could rearrange things so we wo= uldn't need any separator at all.

.iure'e le cevni ko kurji<= br>
All of them are valid, all mean exactly the same thing, and your style = is entirely your choice. The last form is the shortest, and matches my pers= onal style. The {ku} version may be better as you're getting the hang o= f terminators. The {cu} version has the marginal benefit of explicitly mark= ing the selbri, instead of relying on the listener to know that we've g= otten to that level (I've heard people praise that, again in more compl= icated examples where it makes a difference). TMTOWTDI

On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Lee Carlso= n <lorddraqo@gm= ail.com> wrote:
My thanks. I created a farewell, based on my spiritual path's "ble= ssed be," which I render as iure'e le cevni cu kurji ko by = which I mean "with spiritual love I direct you to act in such a way th= at your perception of god (the divine) cares about/for you." Have I ac= complished my goal?

mi'o mi'e brais


=
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Michael Turnia= nsky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0 Yes, don't let lindar and his dialect contingent m= islead you. =A0It DOES serve a purpose, but it can be worked around, as wel= l. =A0Its purpose is to mark which word/phrase in a bridi that is the main = relationship. =A0Can it be worked around? =A0Yes, but as Pierre mentioned, = it means properly closing off all open structures before then. =A0

=A0 =A0So, what would you use in its place? =A0That depnds e= ntirely on what needs terminating. =A0If nothing needs closing, the you don= 't need it.

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --= gejyspa


On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Lee Carlson= <lorddraqo@gmail.com> wrote:
And here I was told that without cu one of m= y favorite statements made no sense at all. So what is it: does cu serve a = purpose, or not? If not, then what would I use in it's place?

mi'o brais


On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:38 AM, Lindar <lindarthebard@gmail.com= > wrote:
The short answer:
It's never necessary. NEVER.
It's a= handy shortcut sometimes.
Learn to do without it at first or you= r grammar will suck.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/CuzwB6IY5XEJ.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



= --
The World is a magical place, waiting for ou= r senses to grow sharper.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
The World i= s a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--f46d04478507344d2d04b966746e--