Received: from mail-bk0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:43388) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S4nJH-0003bq-TI; Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:51:53 -0800 Received: by bkcjg9 with SMTP id jg9sf4673146bkc.16 for ; Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhDPy9b6BBoEm3gJTA@googlegroups.com designates 10.204.151.69 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.204.151.69; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhDPy9b6BBoEm3gJTA@googlegroups.com designates 10.204.151.69 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhDPy9b6BBoEm3gJTA@googlegroups.com; dkim=pass header.i=lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhDPy9b6BBoEm3gJTA@googlegroups.com Received: from mr.google.com ([10.204.151.69]) by 10.204.151.69 with SMTP id b5mr6655819bkw.18.1331013095779 (num_hops = 1); Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:51:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=CdIT0s7Vqm+o5Iq8xSbBb3SZdW0Lf+s9nlnfZnanQMs=; b=axiqAmraXo6N+zEwkt3Vmrb34Xb7FlbrRA8BhHjR2WL/Y62PJNqJrEh993aHYDcyD6 4SjHgGG/l5jseAHHZARrckC98t7iSlo5JogJ8XJRG0x46QK7Lin7wNRov2l84SUfWy0a c0gy82E99SIvicuirCIoCkmktWdRhaDBB9vAs= Received: by 10.204.151.69 with SMTP id b5mr1964536bkw.18.1331013071258; Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:51:11 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.181.202 with SMTP id bz10ls175057bkb.0.gmail; Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:51:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.205.123.6 with SMTP id gi6mr1814020bkc.5.1331013069498; Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:51:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.205.123.6 with SMTP id gi6mr1814019bkc.5.1331013069470; Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:51:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f42.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f42.google.com [209.85.215.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o5si20616286bkz.0.2012.03.05.21.51.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:51:09 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.42; Received: by lahl5 with SMTP id l5so13231285lah.1 for ; Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:51:09 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 10.112.86.198 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.112.86.198; Received: from mr.google.com ([10.112.86.198]) by 10.112.86.198 with SMTP id r6mr10981773lbz.53.1331013069159 (num_hops = 1); Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:51:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.86.198 with SMTP id r6mr9008926lbz.53.1331013069060; Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:51:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.148.225 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 21:51:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <53e56d0b-83b4-4575-80d8-c1e8a8708d15@q11g2000vbu.googlegroups.com> <201203052204.54233.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 22:51:08 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Just having trouble putting a sentence together in general... Think I figured it out From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec554d6dc2c3cad04ba8ca11d X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 12706 --bcaec554d6dc2c3cad04ba8ca11d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 9:56 PM, .arpis. wrote: > doi .aionys. Can you justify that prescription? > It's not a prescription. It's not a position. It's the definition of le. le as mentioned in the following documents: jbovlaste : "non-veridical descriptor: the one(s) described as ..." {gadri lo selbri fo le du'u sinxa ro se skicu be le cusku bei le te cusku bei la'e vo'e} CLL 6.2 : "le LE the, the one(s) described as" le zarci one-or-more-specific-things-each-of-which-I-describe-as being-a-market the market xorlo : "le is used for particular things you have in mind." > > pe'i That's malgli, but I speak Russian fluently, and that my account > for my opinion. > It certainly does, since that is the definition of le. > On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Jonathan Jones > wrote: > > Use {le} when you are referring to something you specifically have in > mind. > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:52 PM, .arpis. > wrote: > >> > >> I haven't heard of a good consensus of when to use {le}. > >> > >> My impression is that {lo} should be the default unless you have > >> reason stronger than specificity. *ba'e* {le} is not "the". > >> > >> I personally only use it when I want to emphasize the fact that the > >> sumti may not technically fit the selbri, mu'i {le cribe} to refer to > >> a teddy-bear; unlike pre-xorlo, however, {lo cribe} is unquestionably > >> still correct in that case. > >> > >> I guess I might also use it to clarify/emphasize subjectivity: {lo > >> xagrai cmaxi'a} might not have a clear referent, but if I say {le > >> xagrai cmaxi'a}, I'm clearly talking about Rainbow Dash. > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Pierre Abbat > wrote: > >> > On Monday, March 05, 2012 21:49:33 RexScientiarum wrote: > >> >> If I was was talking about a specific microbe I was observing I > could > >> >> use {le} right? > >> > > >> > Yes, and likewise if you're using a specific microscope. Use of > articles > >> > in > >> > Lojban is somewhat different from use of articles in English (or > French > >> > or any > >> > other language that has articles). > >> > > >> > Pierre > >> > -- > >> > .i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do > >> > .ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga > >> > .icu'u la ma'atman. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> > Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > >> > To post to this group, send email to > lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> mu'o mi'e .arpis. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "Lojban Beginners" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .arpis. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --bcaec554d6dc2c3cad04ba8ca11d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 9:56 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+j= bobau@gmail.com> wrote:
doi .aionys. Can you justify that prescription?

It= 's not a prescription. It's not a position. It's the definition= of le.

le as mentioned in the following documents:

jbovlaste : "non-veridical descriptor: the one(s) described as ..." {gadri= lo=20 selbri fo le du'u sinxa ro se skicu be le cusku bei le te cusku bei la&= #39;e vo'e}

CLL 6.2 : = "le LE the, the one(s) described as"
le = zarci
one-or-more-specific-things-each-of-which-I-describe-as bei= ng-a-market
the market

xorlo : "le is used for particular things you have in mind.&= quot;

pe'i That's malgli, but I speak Russian fluently, and that my accou= nt
for my opinion.

It certainly does, since that is t= he definition of le.
=A0
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> Use {le} when you are referring to something you specifically have in = mind.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:52 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I haven't heard of a good consensus of when to use {le}.
>>
>> My impression is that {lo} should be the default unless you have >> reason stronger than specificity. *ba'e* {le} is not "the= ".
>>
>> I personally only use it when I want to emphasize the fact that th= e
>> sumti may not technically fit the selbri, mu'i {le cribe} to r= efer to
>> a teddy-bear; unlike pre-xorlo, however, {lo cribe} is unquestiona= bly
>> still correct in that case.
>>
>> I guess I might also use it to clarify/emphasize subjectivity: {lo=
>> xagrai cmaxi'a} might not have a clear referent, but if I say = {le
>> xagrai cmaxi'a}, I'm clearly talking about Rainbow Dash. >>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
>> > On Monday, March 05, 2012 21:49:33 RexScientiarum wrote:
>> >> If I was was talking about a specific microbe I was =A0ob= serving I could
>> >> use {le} right?
>> >
>> > Yes, and likewise if you're using a specific microscope. = Use of articles
>> > in
>> > Lojban is somewhat different from use of articles in English = (or French
>> > or any
>> > other language that has articles).
>> >
>> > Pierre
>> > --
>> > .i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
>> > .ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
>> > .icu'u la ma'atman.
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the G= oogle
>> > Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl= =3Den.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .
>>
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> loj= ban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .



--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--bcaec554d6dc2c3cad04ba8ca11d--