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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 01:29:37 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj1q5_AXa9=z-epk4SiUdakPT3jKZbTEyOQv22_8McZ_+A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Just having trouble putting a sentence
 together in general... Think I figured it out
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 12:10 AM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> In the past, I've found the "How to use xorlo" page misleading at
>> best, and incorrect at worst. I recall xorxes contradicting it.
>>
>> As I understand, the BPFK section on gadri is the most accurate
>> reference to do with {lo} and {le}:
>> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri
>>
>> {lo broda} is defined as {zo'e noi ke'a broda}
>> {le broda} is defined as {zo'e noi mi ke'a do skicu lo ka ce'u broda
>
>
In this particular case, all three of the sources I quoted agree. In fact,
every authoritative work on the meaning of Lojban {le} agrees, because the
meaning of {le} has been exactly the same since the beginning of the
language, or at the very least since before I joined the community back in
the 90's. The relatively recent xorlo change only stripped the default
quantifiers from {le}, it didn't in any way change it's meaning.

To illustrate the above fact, here's what your source says about the
meaning of {le}:

"le (LE) Specific article. It converts a selbri, selecting its first
argument, into a sumti. The resulting expression refers *specifically* to
an individual or individuals that the speaker has in mind and which the
speaker describes as fitting the first argument of the selbri."

-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Jonathan=
 Jones <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com">eyeonus@g=
mail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 12:10 A=
M, .arpis. <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rpglover64%2Bjbobau@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

In the past, I&#39;ve found the &quot;How to use xorlo&quot; page misleadin=
g at<br>
best, and incorrect at worst. I recall xorxes contradicting it.<br>
<br>
As I understand, the BPFK section on gadri is the most accurate<br>
reference to do with {lo} and {le}:<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri</a><br>
<br>
{lo broda} is defined as {zo&#39;e noi ke&#39;a broda}<br>
{le broda} is defined as {zo&#39;e noi mi ke&#39;a do skicu lo ka ce&#39;u =
broda
</blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br>In this particular case, al=
l three of the sources I quoted agree. In fact, every authoritative work on=
 the meaning of Lojban {le} agrees, because the meaning of {le} has been ex=
actly the same since the beginning of the language, or at the very least si=
nce before I joined the community back in the 90&#39;s. The relatively rece=
nt xorlo change only stripped the default quantifiers from {le}, it didn&#3=
9;t in any way change it&#39;s meaning.<br>
<br>To illustrate the above fact, here&#39;s what your source says about th=
e meaning of {le}:<br><br>&quot;le (LE) Specific article. It converts a sel=
bri, selecting its first argument, into a sumti. The resulting expression r=
efers <b>specifically</b> to an individual or individuals that the speaker =
has in mind and which the speaker describes as fitting the first argument o=
f the selbri.&quot;<br>
<br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo piln=
o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Lu=
ke, I am your father. :D )<br><br>

<p></p>

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