Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f61.google.com ([209.85.215.61]:36977) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S5uXS-00085u-FT; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:47:07 -0800 Received: by lagv3 with SMTP id v3sf1387397lag.16 for ; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:46:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=sIt36K5j7G+H9rrw52ghGLX7MMPBvwYIjJB/ZFGr8HA=; b=dXmmNKnL+tL+c2ffJTNknaFxPEglB9BNzbFOcqYy+5Md+Bapfc478Q0bV8pwh8oHqV Pj/Ro/f1oBjieX8vflo/sKUrXsSWdz57LivSE5tM1wSgud7KFUN4/8NXAyRIq61VL1yi muu/OQ8giccrYNi1876VSRaq7yQMoM4UMrwZo= Received: by 10.205.132.65 with SMTP id ht1mr82787bkc.29.1331279185789; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:46:25 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.50.142 with SMTP id z14ls4965721bkf.3.gmail; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.156.210 with SMTP id y18mr83855bkw.7.1331279184759; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.156.210 with SMTP id y18mr83854bkw.7.1331279184723; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f46.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f46.google.com [209.85.215.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o5si5077677bkz.0.2012.03.08.23.46.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.46; Received: by lahj13 with SMTP id j13so1704004lah.5 for ; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:46:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.46.202 with SMTP id x10mr430380lbm.39.1331279184278; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.148.225 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Mar 2012 23:46:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <32656581.370.1331277547632.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbed8> References: <13108417.226.1331267756499.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbkc1> <17799116.250.1331273610516.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbai14> <32656581.370.1331277547632.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbed8> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 00:46:24 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {me ko'a} instead of {broda} ? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec55406ace0363404baca9616 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 14953 --bcaec55406ace0363404baca9616 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If you wanted to refer to them individually, as far as I am aware, you'd have to either call them directly ({le finpe gusta} and {le pinynabycerni gusta) (Note: There's no current valsi I know of for pancake. I'm using "flat breakfast bread" for it.)), or assign them individually. I suppose you could say something like {le finpe me ko'e}. Although that sounds ugly to me, I believe it would work for either your or my assignment of ko'e, the difference being that your assignment of ko'e would make {le finpe me ko'e} refer to a fish restaraunt out of the set of all existing restaraunts, whereas my ko'e would make it refer to a fish restaraunt out of the set of two restaraunts, regardless of how many exist. Now that I think about it, I think the best assignment for ko'e would be {ko'e goi re ko'a gusta}, since you are wanting to talk about HIS two restaraunts. So, with all that in mind, my best guess would be: ko'a ponse ko'e goi re ko'a gusta ko'a owns ko'e, where ko'e is his two restaurants. ko'a owns two restaurants. .i lo finpe me ko'e vi zvati lo xamsi The fish type-of ko'e is near the ocean. His fish restaurant is near the ocean. On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:19 AM, gleki wrote: > OK. So imagine that one restaurant is a fish restaurant. Another one is a > pancake restaurant. > > A fish one. > A pancake one. > > How do I refer do them in the following text ? > > Obviously English word "one" should correspond to {broda} or {ko'a}. How > do I achieve this ? > > > On Friday, March 9, 2012 10:32:21 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >> >> You want the term ko'e to refer to the two restaurants collectively, you >> want {ko'e goi re gusta}, or {ko'e goi re le gusta} if you want to explicit >> about specificity. >> >> If you want to refer to them individually, I don't think that's possible >> with only one term. >> >> What you have means the pretty much same thing as what I wrote, although >> your ko'e assignment is different and your bridi is obviously much more >> complicated: >> ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta >> ko'a owns two of something that is amongst (ko'e = one or more things >> that actually is a restaraunt). >> Ko'a owns two things that are ko'e, where ko'e is "one or more >> restaraunts" >> >> ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta >> ko'a owns (ko'e = two restaraunts). >> ko'a owns ko'e, where ko'e is "two restaraunts" >> >> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:13 PM, gleki wrote: >> >>> No ! What you suggest is that {ko'e} is two restaurants. But I need >>> {ko'e} to be each of the restaurants ! >>> >>> >>> On Friday, March 9, 2012 9:18:50 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >>>> >>>> I would go with {ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta}. It seems to me you're >>>> overthinking it a tad. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 9:35 PM, gleki wrote: >>>> >>>>> I wonder how to express the phrase "he is the owner of two cafes" >>>>> using {ko'a} ("he") and {ko'e} (each of the cafes) >>>>> >>>>> {ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta} ? >>>>> >>>>> {broda} series won't work if in the following text each of the cafes >>>>> is described. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/* >>>>> *ms**g/lojban-beginners/-/**kszrSxLem**-wJ >>>>> . >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.*** >>>>> *com . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**g**ooglegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group >>>>> **/lojban-beginners?hl=en >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/** >>> msg/lojban-beginners/-/**QdVUwPSUNJkJ >>> . >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.**com >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=en >>> . >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/pxN0SfjwtLMJ. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --bcaec55406ace0363404baca9616 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you wanted to refer to them individually, as far as I am aware, you'= d have to either call them directly ({le finpe gusta} and {le pinynabycerni= gusta) (Note: There's no current valsi I know of for pancake. I'm = using "flat breakfast bread" for it.)), or assign them individual= ly.

I suppose you could say something like {le finpe me ko'e}. Although= that sounds ugly to me, I believe it would work for either your or my assi= gnment of ko'e, the difference being that your assignment of ko'e w= ould make {le finpe me ko'e} refer to a fish restaraunt out of the set = of all existing restaraunts, whereas my ko'e would make it refer to a f= ish restaraunt out of the set of two restaraunts, regardless of how many ex= ist.

Now that I think about it, I think the best assignment for ko'e wou= ld be {ko'e goi re ko'a gusta}, since you are wanting to talk about= HIS two restaraunts.

So, with all that in mind, my best guess would= be:

ko'a ponse ko'e goi re ko'a gusta
ko'a owns ko'e= , where ko'e is his two restaurants.
ko'a owns two restaurants.<= br>
.i lo finpe me ko'e vi zvati lo xamsi
The fish type-of ko'= ;e is near the ocean.
His fish restaurant is near the ocean.

On= Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:19 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wro= te:
OK. So imagine that one restaurant is a fish= restaurant. Another one is a pancake restaurant.

A fish= one.
A pancake one.

How do I refer do them=A0in th= e following text ?

Obviously English word &quo= t;one" should correspond to {broda} or {ko'a}. How do I achieve th= is ?


On Friday, March 9, 2012 10:32:21 AM U= TC+4, aionys wrote:
You want the ter= m ko'e to refer to the two restaurants collectively, you want {ko'e= goi re gusta}, or {ko'e goi re le gusta} if you want to explicit about= specificity.

If you want to refer to them individually, I don't think that's= possible with only one term.

What you have means the pretty much same thing as what I wrote, althoug= h your ko'e assignment is different and your bridi is obviously much mo= re complicated:
ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta
ko'= a owns two of something that is amongst (ko'e =3D one or more things th= at actually is a restaraunt).
Ko'a owns two things that are ko'e, where ko'e is "one or = more restaraunts"

ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta
ko= 9;a owns (ko'e =3D two restaraunts).
ko'a owns ko'e, where k= o'e is "two restaraunts"

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:13 PM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
No ! What you suggest is that {ko'e} is two restaurants. But I need {ko= 'e} to be each of the restaurants !


On Frid= ay, March 9, 2012 9:18:50 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
I would go with {ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta}. It seems to me you&= #39;re overthinking it a tad.

On Thu, Mar= 8, 2012 at 9:35 PM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
I wonder how to express the phrase "he = is the owner of two cafes" using {ko'a} ("he") and {ko&#= 39;e} (each of the cafes)

{ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta} ?
=
{broda} series won't work if in the following text each = of the cafes is described.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/kszrSxLem-w= J.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/<= u>
group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'= e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. m= i patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<= br>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/QdVUwPSUNJkJ.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/pxN0SfjwtLMJ.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--bcaec55406ace0363404baca9616--