Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]:41600) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S5uhV-0008BF-Ei; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:57:31 -0800 Received: by wgbdt10 with SMTP id dt10sf1180223wgb.16 for ; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:57:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=+f+z3m4fC1jf6tQh7mlrE3+VE+lNe9mFen9PJQ5hWTE=; b=ohZZWmAAdsvw5QB/v/CRdWU9Ws/vCfZvywO1HKirDF/eoK73fW5eCz1SCvtOb3n0GX zg51WecgH2ZczACxzqhsgQ0KfSUWUKcqGx9Bt3P5KkJ45oH/SlR2z3YQHByfMTu9vjPq /Yv/7MnFk6KTUMqAHAftpFHaXY+qcI4JsHyf4= Received: by 10.204.130.85 with SMTP id r21mr103502bks.0.1331279807844; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:56:47 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.128.220 with SMTP id l28ls5096970bks.8.gmail; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.143.143 with SMTP id v15mr85659bku.8.1331279806785; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.143.143 with SMTP id v15mr85658bku.8.1331279806748; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f53.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f53.google.com [209.85.215.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ba12si5098415bkb.2.2012.03.08.23.56.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.53; Received: by lahc1 with SMTP id c1so1498196lah.12 for ; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:56:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.25.40 with SMTP id z8mr455655lbf.11.1331279806204; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.148.225 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Mar 2012 23:56:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <13108417.226.1331267756499.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbkc1> <17799116.250.1331273610516.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbai14> <32656581.370.1331277547632.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbed8> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 00:56:46 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {me ko'a} instead of {broda} ? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040122a3f20a9804bacabbfa X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 16274 --f46d040122a3f20a9804bacabbfa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > If you wanted to refer to them individually, as far as I am aware, you'd > have to either call them directly ({le finpe gusta} and {le pinynabycerni > gusta) (Note: There's no current valsi I know of for pancake. I'm using > "flat breakfast bread" for it.)), or assign them individually. > > I suppose you could say something like {le finpe me ko'e}. Although that > sounds ugly to me, I believe it would work for either your or my assignment > of ko'e, the difference being that your assignment of ko'e would make {le > finpe me ko'e} refer to a fish restaraunt out of the set of all existing > restaraunts, whereas my ko'e would make it refer to a fish restaraunt out > of the set of two restaraunts, regardless of how many exist. > > Now that I think about it, I think the best assignment for ko'e would be > {ko'e goi re ko'a gusta}, since you are wanting to talk about HIS two > restaraunts. > > So, with all that in mind, my best guess would be: > > ko'a ponse ko'e goi re ko'a gusta > ko'a owns ko'e, where ko'e is his two restaurants. > ko'a owns two restaurants. > > .i lo finpe me ko'e vi zvati lo xamsi > The fish type-of ko'e is near the ocean. > Sorry, that should be "The fish type-of things-which-are-ko'e is near the ocean." > His fish restaurant is near the ocean. > > > On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:19 AM, gleki wrote: > >> OK. So imagine that one restaurant is a fish restaurant. Another one is a >> pancake restaurant. >> >> A fish one. >> A pancake one. >> >> How do I refer do them in the following text ? >> >> Obviously English word "one" should correspond to {broda} or {ko'a}. How >> do I achieve this ? >> >> >> On Friday, March 9, 2012 10:32:21 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >>> >>> You want the term ko'e to refer to the two restaurants collectively, you >>> want {ko'e goi re gusta}, or {ko'e goi re le gusta} if you want to explicit >>> about specificity. >>> >>> If you want to refer to them individually, I don't think that's possible >>> with only one term. >>> >>> What you have means the pretty much same thing as what I wrote, although >>> your ko'e assignment is different and your bridi is obviously much more >>> complicated: >>> ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta >>> ko'a owns two of something that is amongst (ko'e = one or more things >>> that actually is a restaraunt). >>> Ko'a owns two things that are ko'e, where ko'e is "one or more >>> restaraunts" >>> >>> ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta >>> ko'a owns (ko'e = two restaraunts). >>> ko'a owns ko'e, where ko'e is "two restaraunts" >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:13 PM, gleki wrote: >>> >>>> No ! What you suggest is that {ko'e} is two restaurants. But I need >>>> {ko'e} to be each of the restaurants ! >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, March 9, 2012 9:18:50 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I would go with {ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta}. It seems to me you're >>>>> overthinking it a tad. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 9:35 PM, gleki wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I wonder how to express the phrase "he is the owner of two cafes" >>>>>> using {ko'a} ("he") and {ko'e} (each of the cafes) >>>>>> >>>>>> {ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta} ? >>>>>> >>>>>> {broda} series won't work if in the following text each of the cafes >>>>>> is described. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >>>>>> **ms**g/lojban-beginners/-/**kszrSxLem**-wJ >>>>>> . >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.** >>>>>> **com . >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**g**ooglegroups.com >>>>>> . >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>>>> group**/lojban-beginners?hl=en >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>> >>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/** >>>> msg/lojban-beginners/-/**QdVUwPSUNJkJ >>>> . >>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.** >>>> com . >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=en >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/pxN0SfjwtLMJ. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --f46d040122a3f20a9804bacabbfa Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Jonathan Jones = <eyeonus@gmail.co= m> wrote:
If you wanted to refer to them individually, as far as I am aware, you'= d have to either call them directly ({le finpe gusta} and {le pinynabycerni= gusta) (Note: There's no current valsi I know of for pancake. I'm = using "flat breakfast bread" for it.)), or assign them individual= ly.

I suppose you could say something like {le finpe me ko'e}. Although= that sounds ugly to me, I believe it would work for either your or my assi= gnment of ko'e, the difference being that your assignment of ko'e w= ould make {le finpe me ko'e} refer to a fish restaraunt out of the set = of all existing restaraunts, whereas my ko'e would make it refer to a f= ish restaraunt out of the set of two restaraunts, regardless of how many ex= ist.

Now that I think about it, I think the best assignment for ko'e wou= ld be {ko'e goi re ko'a gusta}, since you are wanting to talk about= HIS two restaraunts.

So, with all that in mind, my best guess would= be:

ko'a ponse ko'e goi re ko'a gusta
ko'a owns ko'e= , where ko'e is his two restaurants.
ko'a owns two restaurants.<= br>
.i lo finpe me ko'e vi zvati lo xamsi
The fish type-of ko'= ;e is near the ocean.

Sorry, that should be "The fish type-of things-w= hich-are-ko'e is near the ocean."
=A0
His fish restaurant is near the ocean.

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:19 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
OK. So imagine that one restaurant is a fish= restaurant. Another one is a pancake restaurant.

A fish= one.
A pancake one.

How do I refer do them=A0in th= e following text ?

Obviously English word &quo= t;one" should correspond to {broda} or {ko'a}. How do I achieve th= is ?


On Friday, March 9, 2012 10:32:21 AM UTC+4, aionys = wrote:
You want the term ko'e to= refer to the two restaurants collectively, you want {ko'e goi re gusta= }, or {ko'e goi re le gusta} if you want to explicit about specificity.=

If you want to refer to them individually, I don't think that's= possible with only one term.

What you have means the pretty much same thing as what I wrote, althoug= h your ko'e assignment is different and your bridi is obviously much mo= re complicated:
ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta
ko'= a owns two of something that is amongst (ko'e =3D one or more things th= at actually is a restaraunt).
Ko'a owns two things that are ko'e, where ko'e is "one or = more restaraunts"

ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta
ko= 9;a owns (ko'e =3D two restaraunts).
ko'a owns ko'e, where k= o'e is "two restaraunts"

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:13 PM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
No ! What you suggest is that {ko'e} is two restaurants. But I need {ko= 'e} to be each of the restaurants !


On Frid= ay, March 9, 2012 9:18:50 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
I would go with {ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta}. It seems to me you&= #39;re overthinking it a tad.

On Thu, Mar= 8, 2012 at 9:35 PM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
I wonder how to express the phrase "he = is the owner of two cafes" using {ko'a} ("he") and {ko&#= 39;e} (each of the cafes)

{ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta} ?
=
{broda} series won't work if in the following text each = of the cafes is described.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/kszrSxLem-w= J.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/<= u>
group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'= e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. m= i patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<= br>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/QdVUwPSUNJkJ.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/pxN0SfjwtLMJ.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--f46d040122a3f20a9804bacabbfa--