Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:42685) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S5vRY-0008RU-1p; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:45:03 -0800 Received: by vbbfd1 with SMTP id fd1sf1298058vbb.16 for ; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:44:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=rwjv0uga5GR4y3IAlRJuZgr0OzlHC3gqBTx6GNdIVhc=; b=CATCcx7j6okEu/hZe2pRj1OepOV2/jy/AUSQGsYgfIe5GCDdqokmiBDTWhBS/p1rbf 6en3rQJKd+pSHmcCi3kzzfbI8A71KDl7ARsyz0UyV5Os14L1uhU29hVlIL3t47Qrb+ei jAJhYVwQXMIGhL6el5S0/nAKufj9wBQy7Dft0= Received: by 10.236.156.73 with SMTP id l49mr103029yhk.15.1331282665007; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:44:25 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.170.2 with SMTP id x2ls3394305ano.3.gmail; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:44:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.181.71 with SMTP id k47mr101260yhm.19.1331282663342; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:44:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 00:44:22 -0800 (PST) From: gleki To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <4111232.447.1331282662779.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynne2> In-Reply-To: References: <13108417.226.1331267756499.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbkc1> <17799116.250.1331273610516.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbai14> <32656581.370.1331277547632.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbed8> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {me ko'a} instead of {broda} ? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_446_30202627.1331282662777" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 17292 ------=_Part_446_30202627.1331282662777 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Friday, March 9, 2012 11:56:46 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> If you wanted to refer to them individually, as far as I am aware, you'd >> have to either call them directly ({le finpe gusta} and {le pinynabycerni >> gusta) (Note: There's no current valsi I know of for pancake. I'm using >> "flat breakfast bread" for it.)), or assign them individually. >> >> I suppose you could say something like {le finpe me ko'e}. Although that >> sounds ugly to me, I believe it would work for either your or my assignment >> of ko'e, the difference being that your assignment of ko'e would make {le >> finpe me ko'e} refer to a fish restaraunt out of the set of all existing >> restaraunts, whereas my ko'e would make it refer to a fish restaraunt out >> of the set of two restaraunts, regardless of how many exist. >> >> Now that I think about it, I think the best assignment for ko'e would be >> {ko'e goi re ko'a gusta}, since you are wanting to talk about HIS two >> restaraunts. >> >> So, with all that in mind, my best guess would be: >> >> ko'a ponse ko'e goi re ko'a gusta >> > I guess it should be {ko'a ponse ko'e goi re LO ko'a gusta} otherwise it won't parse. > ko'a owns ko'e, where ko'e is his two restaurants. >> ko'a owns two restaurants. >> >> .i lo finpe me ko'e vi zvati lo xamsi >> The fish type-of ko'e is near the ocean. >> > > Sorry, that should be "The fish type-of things-which-are-ko'e is near the > ocean." > > >> His fish restaurant is near the ocean. >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:19 AM, gleki wrote: >> >>> OK. So imagine that one restaurant is a fish restaurant. Another one is >>> a pancake restaurant. >>> >>> A fish one. >>> A pancake one. >>> >>> How do I refer do them in the following text ? >>> >>> Obviously English word "one" should correspond to {broda} or {ko'a}. How >>> do I achieve this ? >>> >>> >>> On Friday, March 9, 2012 10:32:21 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >>>> >>>> You want the term ko'e to refer to the two restaurants collectively, >>>> you want {ko'e goi re gusta}, or {ko'e goi re le gusta} if you want to >>>> explicit about specificity. >>>> >>>> If you want to refer to them individually, I don't think that's >>>> possible with only one term. >>>> >>>> What you have means the pretty much same thing as what I wrote, >>>> although your ko'e assignment is different and your bridi is obviously much >>>> more complicated: >>>> ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta >>>> ko'a owns two of something that is amongst (ko'e = one or more things >>>> that actually is a restaraunt). >>>> Ko'a owns two things that are ko'e, where ko'e is "one or more >>>> restaraunts" >>>> >>>> ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta >>>> ko'a owns (ko'e = two restaraunts). >>>> ko'a owns ko'e, where ko'e is "two restaraunts" >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:13 PM, gleki wrote: >>>> >>>>> No ! What you suggest is that {ko'e} is two restaurants. But I need >>>>> {ko'e} to be each of the restaurants ! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, March 9, 2012 9:18:50 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I would go with {ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta}. It seems to me you're >>>>>> overthinking it a tad. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 9:35 PM, gleki wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I wonder how to express the phrase "he is the owner of two cafes" >>>>>>> using {ko'a} ("he") and {ko'e} (each of the cafes) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> {ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta} ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> {broda} series won't work if in the following text each of the cafes >>>>>>> is described. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/**ms**g/lojban-beginners/-/**kszrSxLem** >>>>>>> -wJ >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.* >>>>>>> ***com . >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**g**ooglegroups.com >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>>>>> group**/lojban-beginners?hl=en >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>> >>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/* >>>>> *msg/lojban-beginners/-/**QdVUwPSUNJkJ >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.** >>>>> com . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=en >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/pxN0SfjwtLMJ. >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/_P45Wb_PKFgJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. ------=_Part_446_30202627.1331282662777 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Friday, March 9, 2012 11:56:46 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
On Fri, Mar 9= , 2012 at 12:46 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote= :
If you wanted to refer to them individually, as far as I am aware, you'd ha= ve to either call them directly ({le finpe gusta} and {le pinynabycerni gus= ta) (Note: There's no current valsi I know of for pancake. I'm using "flat = breakfast bread" for it.)), or assign them individually.

I suppose you could say something like {le finpe me ko'e}. Although tha= t sounds ugly to me, I believe it would work for either your or my assignme= nt of ko'e, the difference being that your assignment of ko'e would make {l= e finpe me ko'e} refer to a fish restaraunt out of the set of all existing = restaraunts, whereas my ko'e would make it refer to a fish restaraunt out o= f the set of two restaraunts, regardless of how many exist.

Now that I think about it, I think the best assignment for ko'e would b= e {ko'e goi re ko'a gusta}, since you are wanting to talk about HIS two res= taraunts.

So, with all that in mind, my best guess would be:

ko'a ponse ko'e goi re ko'a gusta
I guess it should be  {ko'a ponse ko'e goi re LO ko'a gusta} otherw= ise it won't parse.
ko'a owns ko'e, where = ko'e is his two restaurants.
ko'a owns two restaurants.

.i lo fin= pe me ko'e vi zvati lo xamsi
The fish type-of ko'e is near the ocean.

Sorry, that should be "The fish type-of things-which-= are-ko'e is near the ocean."
 
His fish restaurant is near the ocean.


On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:19 AM, gleki <gleki.= is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
OK. So imagine that one restaurant is a fish= restaurant. Another one is a pancake restaurant.

A fish= one.
A pancake one.

How do I refer do them in= the following text ?

Obviously English word "= one" should correspond to {broda} or {ko'a}. How do I achieve this ?


On Friday, March 9, 2012 10:32:21 AM UTC+4, aionys = wrote:
You want the term ko'e to ref= er to the two restaurants collectively, you want {ko'e goi re gusta}, or {k= o'e goi re le gusta} if you want to explicit about specificity.

If you want to refer to them individually, I don't think that's possibl= e with only one term.

What you have means the pretty much same thing as what I wrote, althoug= h your ko'e assignment is different and your bridi is obviously much more c= omplicated:
ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta
ko'a owns two of so= mething that is amongst (ko'e =3D one or more things that actually is a res= taraunt).
Ko'a owns two things that are ko'e, where ko'e is "one or more restaraunts"=

ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta
ko'a owns (ko'e =3D two restaraunts= ).
ko'a owns ko'e, where ko'e is "two restaraunts"

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:13 PM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
No ! What you suggest is that {ko'e} is two restaurants. But I need {ko'e} = to be each of the restaurants !


On Friday, Marc= h 9, 2012 9:18:50 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
I would go with {ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta}. It seems to me you're overt= hinking it a tad.

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at = 9:35 PM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
I wonder how to express the phrase "he is th= e owner of two cafes" using {ko'a} ("he") and {ko'e} (each of the cafes)
{ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta} ?

{broda} series won't work if in the following text each of the cafes= is described.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/kszrSxLem<= /u>-wJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/<= u>
group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'e .aiony= s.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do z= o'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/QdVUwPSUNJkJ.



--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/pxN0SfjwtLMJ.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com= .
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/<= wbr>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )




--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l= ojban-beginners/-/_P45Wb_PKFgJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
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