Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]:48635) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S8df9-0001gG-BQ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:22:15 -0700 Received: by yenm3 with SMTP id m3sf6385745yen.16 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:22:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rSYPX+gses4QuwvyN0n2pWwL82mCzSdW8fmXrfbRYCg=; b=lZqUiUfN5OvlMWfjmnNw6sYzLZiHJWxOLKo/Dd9AE6nXs8wuv8+cCPtZIF5EJ66itQ eqSkS91NmlOk/lVVJKC39+BFbUj5X1VXsHzNDEYQkhZWJ2osmHIA5ZgSIeu6spxn9t2F RcOuEhwTCS+IeXNh/v6fkNNNcFB+CI5mN/CZU= Received: by 10.68.225.41 with SMTP id rh9mr1433903pbc.14.1331929301155; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:21:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.223.72 with SMTP id qs8ls12748969pbc.6.gmail; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.125.233 with SMTP id mt9mr4751885pbb.5.1331929300546; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.125.233 with SMTP id mt9mr4751884pbb.5.1331929300534; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f43.google.com (mail-pz0-f43.google.com [209.85.210.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 6si6931358pbg.2.2012.03.16.13.21.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.43; Received: by mail-pz0-f43.google.com with SMTP id q36so2577299dad.16 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:21:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.195.3 with SMTP id ia3mr17925330pbc.20.1331929300435; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.189.133 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:21:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <26361784.259.1331827845548.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjw14> <2343119.814.1331896532433.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynkz21> <32227855.55.1331909777553.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yncc18> <14627135.208.1331917668355.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbas10> <21590616.1383.1331920334900.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynil17> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:21:40 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Major flaw in Lojban ! (was:Pivotal sentences in Pandunia. How to express them in Lojban ?) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: felipeg.assis@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=felipeg.assis@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.4 X-Spam_score_int: -3 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 1288 On 16 March 2012 17:03, Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis = wrote: > By the way, I never understood why nu-abstractions are used in djica2. > There is no specific event you desire for. You just want an event with ce= rtain > properties to happen. Maybe the more abstract {du'u} would express that? On a more logical level, there is a problem when you try to express desire for something impossible. That is 1. Let broda be a predication that is impossible to hold, even in hypothet= ical worlds, such as a logical contradiction. 2. Let ko'a be a subject with so little grasp of logic that ko'a can not understand that broda is impossible, and naively wants broda. How would the speaker express that ko'a wants broda? He can't say {lo nu broda}, because there is no event of broda. There is no problem with the existence of the predication broda, on the other hand. mu'o mi'e .asiz. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.