Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]:44060)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCK30vq5WEJ6oj_sEGgTzyH18@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1S8h4t-0003DS-Tp; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:01:07 -0700
Received: by dacx6 with SMTP id x6sf6508383dac.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:00:53 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id
         :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post
         :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe
         :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=7aZfuh62yVNxckBUF3TSKGXvPPlGzMx/oPHrXIcKERs=;
        b=TdKRp/l3FJcOrp0zyZxSf8F2e8HzEzLUVETetihq164VfIjALYnoHVGRMcqeUt6kza
         vABPx86/Tm3N4PpFLr8zBk8QuJE1bFP/AcdxeeT/QVx6ocEolx8IiZdMstuwltpqL2eO
         0szq3jiaJ9e0mZ244v0H9CDdhyGxqLD1yBZS0=
Received: by 10.68.135.169 with SMTP id pt9mr1522776pbb.0.1331942430717;
        Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:00:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.68.223.72 with SMTP id qs8ls13170108pbc.6.gmail; Fri, 16 Mar
 2012 17:00:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.68.241.194 with SMTP id wk2mr3684142pbc.8.1331942430153;
        Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:00:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.68.241.194 with SMTP id wk2mr3684141pbc.8.1331942430141;
        Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:00:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from stodi.digitalkingdom.org (mail.digitalkingdom.org. [173.13.139.236])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p7si7444080pbq.0.2012.03.16.17.00.29
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:00:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.236;
Received: from rlpowell by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>)
	id 1S8h4P-0003DH-4n
	for lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:00:29 -0700
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:00:29 -0700
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Major flaw in Lojban ! (was:Pivotal sentences
 in Pandunia. How to express them in Lojban ?)
Message-ID: <20120317000028.GS14076@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
Mail-Followup-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
References: <26361784.259.1331827845548.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjw14>
 <CAOJh99=pb4wOUQimxiXV6y64OiXjJa21OepEZXQvYAVVfdG07A@mail.gmail.com>
 <2343119.814.1331896532433.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynkz21>
 <CAHiXx=P8TijqQSs7b_MhkmeseiGfef5n8_vx5ROYnNNuM_VB4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <32227855.55.1331909777553.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yncc18>
 <CALm==BWJsL527Fhg80vOAkiaF8St1E_JGsmZ7XCvDOViPGhLMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <14627135.208.1331917668355.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbas10>
 <CAOJh99kOdLOYxhxqhuMyPZOcAu-Pndz9KE_izEqU7J+7S_4zgA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2079674.1138.1331942278726.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynee13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <2079674.1138.1331942278726.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynee13>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates
 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.3
X-Spam_score_int: 3
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has
 identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
 has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
 similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
 the administrator of that system for details.
 
 Content preview:  On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 04:57:58PM -0700, Lindar wrote: >
   UI is not a replacement for whole phrases. 《.au mi sipna》means > 《mi
    sipna》 and you feel desire about it. 《.e'o rinsa》 means > 《rinsa》
    and you're suggesting something by it. [...] 
 
 Content analysis details:   (0.3 points, 5.0 required)
 
  pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
 -0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
  0.1 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid
 -0.1 DKIM_VALID             Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
  0.3 PLING_QUERY            Subject has exclamation mark and question mark
Content-Length: 1219

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 04:57:58PM -0700, Lindar wrote:
> UI is not a replacement for whole phrases. =E3=80=8A.au mi sipna=E3=80=8B=
means
> =E3=80=8Ami sipna=E3=80=8B and you feel desire about it. =E3=80=8A.e'o ri=
nsa=E3=80=8B means
> =E3=80=8Arinsa=E3=80=8B and you're suggesting something by it.

That is not currently the case in the language, as you are well
aware, given your note at the end of
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK%20Section:%20Irrealis%20Attitudinals

{.au mi sipna} most definitely does *not* currently assert {mi
sipna}.

-Robin

--=20
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e
lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni li=
'u

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.